Francis Thompson and the Jack the Ripper Pattern Murder.

[Pcdunn]

Links and information on Francis Thompson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Thompson

He was a handsome young man, to judge from his portrait!
He died of TB at the age of 47.

Pat D.

[Richard Patterson]

Richard,

It would be interesting to see your 1888 chronology for Thompson - if it's not too much trouble.

Gary

Here is a chronology of Thompson during the time of the Ripper murders. These dates were sourced from biographies on Thompson including Walsh’s 1967, ‘Strange Harp Strange Symphony. The Life of Francis Thompson.’ Everard Meynell’s 1913 biography & Bridget Boardman’s biography, ‘Between Heaven and Charring Cross. The Life of Francis Thompson.’

On February the 23rd, 1887, Thompson first dropped three poems and an essay on Paganism into Wilfrid Meynell’s letterbox. Meynell found the package and placed it, unopened in a pigeonhole in his office and did not open it until the middle of June.

When he did he read the package’s accompanying letter that told, ‘…for me, no less than Parolles, the dirty nurse experience has something fouled…. Kindly address your rejection to the Charing Cross Post Office.' Parrolles was a character from Shakespeare’s, ‘All's Well That Ends Well’. He was a coward, a liar and a braggart. He is exposed and shamed as someone who pretends to be a great soldier. Thompson’s also included his macabre ‘Nightmare of the Witch Babies’ about a knight who roams the night seeking out witch-women so that could slice their stomachs open and extract their unborn. At this point, apart from knowing Thompson was living a rough near destitute existence. Wilfrid Meynell could know nothing else about him. This was four months after Thompson had delivered it. By now Thompson, not receiving a reply, believed that his package had been simply been tossed aside. Thompson had ceased enquiring at the Charing Cross post office for a response. So when Meynell wrote a letter asking that Thompson see the proofs of one of his poems and the Paganism essay for publishing, it was returned by October 1887 as unclaimed.

Six months after opening the package, in April 1888, Meynell, assuming that by now Thompson, who had never again tried to make contact with him, had died on the streets, published his poem, ‘The Passion of Mary’. One of his readers was a priest named father John Carroll. He was a friend of Thompson’s family. Carroll wrote to Meynell giving him details on Thompson’s background and circumstances. Carroll also made contact with Thompson and told him one of his poems had been published.

On April 14. Another letter arrived at Meynell’s office, in which Thompson wrote, 'Dear Sir-...I forwarded to you for your magazine a prose article...and accompanied it by some of the verse...To be brief, from that day to this, no answer has ever come into my hands...I am now informed that one of the copies of verse...is appearing in this month’s issue.’ Thompson probably wrote this letter from the Chelsea rooms of the prostitute he was then seeing.

Thompson gave his postal address as a chemist in Drury Lane. Meynell approached the chemist and he was told that the poet still owed money for his previous purchases of opium. Wilfrid paid Thompson's debts and asked the chemist to direct Thompson to contact him at his “Merry England” office. When, a month later, Thompson failed to respond, Wilfrid Meynell continued to publish Thompson's poems with “Dream Tryst” in May. In that same month a threadbare shirtless Thompson first met Meynell at his office. Meynell offered to pay him a weekly sum of money, but Thompson refused and once more went back to the streets. On the 25th of May Thompson’s uncle, who had also read Thompson’s work in Meynell’s magazine, wrote to Meynell giving him a full history on Thompson. In June Meynell published Thompson’s essay on Paganism. During June and July Thompson continued to visit Meynell at his office and his home where he bathed and cleaned himself up. He refused offers of accommodation and stayed on the streets. What Meynell did not know was that Thompson had been in a relationship with a prostitute and that in June she had threatened to leave Thompson when returned to her and told her that he now a published poet. She had since ‘vanished’. During this time Thompson was, probably with urgings by Meynell, largely withdrawing from opium,

By the time of the August 31 Bucks Row murder Meynell had in his possession Thompson’s horrid murder poem and Father Carroll and Thompson’s uncle had informed him that Thompson was living on the streets and had trained as a surgeon. Of all the 5 murders the first August 31 one have been the easiest for Thompson/the Ripper to commit. Firstly the fear of the Ripper had not yet taken hold on the streets, so prostitutes where not alarmed or wary. Secondly that Saturday night had been a poor trading night. The nearby dock fire had drawn away the Whitechapel crowds as well as the H Division police. This left Whitechapel with police from other divisions patrolling streets unfamiliar to them and prostitutes being less picky in their choice of customer. For Thompson on that night more than any other, what he needed was not just fine clothes but some money in his hand. He had more than enough cash to convince Mary Nichols to walk into Bucks Row with him. Meynell had already paid him. Other money Thompson may have possessed included an overly large tip by a banker and there is also the ‘Miracle of the Halfpennies’. This was his lucky find of 2 golden sovereigns rolling in a gutter. Father Carroll had also, as an act of charity, given money to Thompson.

By September the 8th Thompson, no longer in rags, would have been able to approach his second victim, Annie Chapmen, with money in pocket and little worry she would reject him. Meynell had even paid Thompson to buy a new suit. This would have made him appear more decent and attractive to the victims. When Thompson returned to Meynell exhausted, in what would have been probably mid-November, this could be when he was placed in the private hospital that Meynell makes mention of, when he noted it in the margins of the manuscript his son Everard Meynell wrote for his, 1913 ‘Life of Francis Thompson’. His father’s note of ‘Six weeks my son!’ would cover the timespan of md-November till the end of December. It was in January 1889, at the earliest, that we find Thompson staying at the country priory in Storrington.

[Richard Patterson]

Richard, some current theorists can't even place their suspects in England, never mind in London. With the rail access to the East End it really doesn't matter where in London Thompson was. So long as he had easy access to the East End, and clearly he did, then that is sufficient.



He could just as easily have read about the place, if you can't place him there by his own words or the words of others, then I would not try to massage the issue. It will look like you are forcing it.

The biggest problem I recall was this business about him being in a hospital at the time of the Kelly murder. That really needs clearing up (unless I missed it? - sorry if that is the case).
That was really the only impediment I remember at the moment.

That Thompson was in any hospital is hearsay by Wilfrid Meynell. No biographer has found any proof he was in a hospital. No details were ever given, including the name of the hospital, his dates of entry and leaving, or his attending doctor. If he was placed in hospital it would probably be between the middle of November 1888 until the end of December.

[Richard Patterson]

Did Francis Thompson know Ernest Dowson?

Good question. Thanks for showing an interest. Yes Thompson did know Earnest Dowson, though not very well. They both attended the Rhymers Club meetings with W.B Yeats. Thompson and Dowson sat next to each other.

[Richard Patterson]

Yawn!

Nobody loves me.

Your Triangles are another mans arrows, so WHAT.

Saint Days Triangles, didn't someone else recently tie it all into Michaelmas.

If you showed that the murder locations on a map could make an arrow, I would ask so what. But if you showed that an existing suspect had an arrow carved on his gravestone, and that this same suspect wrote that arrows were integral to his belief system and used it as a recurring theme in his written texts, I would say that it was an interesting point you were making. This is what I am saying about Thompson in regard to the Vesica Pisces. You can go back to sleep now.

[GUT]

Yawn!

Nobody loves me.

Your Triangles are another mans arrows, so WHAT.

Saint Days Triangles, didn't someone else recently tie it all into Michaelmas.

[Richard Patterson]

Posting on Casebook is often fraught with difficulty, the negativity. The point I make is that, with my suspect at least, posts that show evidence and facts are largely ignored while posts that display conjecture become the hunting ground for members who make derision of others as sick kind of sport. This is backed up by Dane_F, who states in post #35, ‘Just because people are not posting in those threads does not mean they aren't getting read.’ Reading and not responding is ignoring. Now this poster has only been a member since last year so when he states ‘Thompson was not on my radar as recent as a few days ago.’ it is understandable he might know of him, but Thompson has been listed as a suspect here for more than a decade now. In that time only a handful of posters have shown an interest or posted new information on him.

I am accused of doing harm to my theory that Thompson was the Ripper, by posting a thread that describes him and sacred geometry in relation to the crimes. Anyone who writes this shows how little know about him, even after all this time. Thompson held a life-long interest in the subject and a symbol sacred to him, the Vesica Pisces, can be made upon a map of the Ripper crimes. Using cardinal compass headings that match his belief system of changing directions of religious worship through history.

The fact is Thompson was intensely interested in the occult, mysticism, and numerology. To not mention these things on the forum on him would be ridiculous. I am warned off mentioning such things as the Freemasons in connection to Thompson even though anyone who has read a good biography on Thompson knows his radical and fanatical views on this order. Posters promise I perform no good in promoting my suspect by discussing such things as Freemasonry, him and the crimes, but this forum on my suspect is not about convincing people of Thompson’s guilt. It is about describing him. Thompson claimed he saw fairies, he says he encountered more than one ghost. He believed in demons. To leave these themes out of a thread on Thompson might help me avoid accusations of taking ‘silly angles’ but it would be an injustice to him and members of Casebook. To illustrate this and of course be accused of being ‘sensational’., I will dwell on the Ripper murders, Thompson & Freemasonry.

Many of those heading the police force and leading the Whitechapel murder investigation were Protestants and members of the Freemasons. These people included the Head of the force Police Commissioner Sir Warren who as well as being a member, conducted research for the society. Dr Robert Anderson who upon his return from Switzerland was placed as head of the investigation was a Freemason. Coroner to the murder inquests Wynne Edwin Baxter was a Freemason of the South Sussex Lodge. In 1888 it was easy to find people with a grudge with the Freemasons. Pope Leo XIII reflected the view of many Catholics in the 19th century on Freemasonry in his 1884 encyclical. His eight thousand-word paper named "Humanum Genus" argued against the doctrine of Freemasonry and said in part,

'The race of man, after its miserable fall from God, the Creator and the Giver of heavenly gifts, "through the envy of the devil," separated into two diverse and opposite parts...one is the kingdom of God... The other is the kingdom of Satan...At this period, however, the partisans of evil seems to be combining together and to be struggling with united vehemence, led on or assisted by that strongly organized and widespread association called the Freemasons. No longer making any secret of their purposes, they are now boldly rising up against God Himself... it is Our office to point out the danger, to mark who are the adversaries and to the best of Our power to make head against their plans and devices...the sect of Freemasons grew with a rapidity beyond conception in the course of a century and a half, until it came to be able, by means of fraud or of audacity, to gain such entrance into every rank of the State as to seem to be almost its ruling power. ...For these reasons We no sooner came to the helm of the Church than We clearly saw and felt it to be Our duty to use Our authority to the very utmost against so vast an evil.'

Francis Thompson hated the Freemasons. In his later years, Thompson began to gather data on the Freemasons. His aim was to expose what he saw as ‘a history of hidden evil’ that had ‘left its ruthless fingerprints on the wrist of history’. Although his notes and a manuscript for a book he hoped to publish on is believed to have been destroyed by his editor, we do some things about it. This is through Elizabeth Blackburn, as associate of Thompson. She told,

‘As to the Freemasonry notes I imagine that could be collated and disentangled to prove at least more than interesting. His plan, often discussed was to begin with the Gnostics, go down through the Templars and other military orders – till. Reaching the Reformation period and the Rosicrucians, with the French revolution, modern Masonry in its mischievous Continental attitude stood clearly revealed. How much or how little he wrote I of course don’t know. At first I took slight notice, but as he went on he showed a wonderful appreciation of what lawyers call “evidence” – and it was surprising to see how he fitted in the pieces – more puzzling than any jig-saw – to make a perfect picture=’

Now just because Thompson, a fervent Catholic, might have been striking out at the ‘establishment’ with these murders and it could be a further motive that we can attribute to him. I have never said case closed. All I ask is that even if people here do not take me seriously they should take Thompson. No doubt even saying this will ‘irritate’ some readers here as I have done when I looked at saint days and the murders. To me examining the saint days in relation to the crimes makes perfect sense with a suspect who wrote on the saints and trained as a Catholic priest. Until members bother to perform their own research on Thompson remarks about me writing about ‘hocus pocus’ will continue. Though who should be surprised when new ideas are not met with curiosity and fact checking here, but irritation, dismissal and disrespect.

[MrBarnett]

First I am using terms carefully here so I used the words ‘most likely living in Whitechapel’. Walsh does not have his dates wrong. I have written a chronology of Thompson in 1888, and I’m happy to share it if you ask for it. To be brief, Canon John Carroll alerted Thompson to the publication of his first poem, in April 1888. This Catholic priest was a friend of the family, but until April 1888, did not keep in touch with Thompson. In June 1888, Thompson’s prostitute abandoned him and vanished. That same month Meynell paid Thompson for his poems and essay and offered to find him lodging, however Thompson refuse and insisted he stay on the streets. It is said he had given up hope of finding her in October, though he did not leave the streets until, at the least, the middle of November. It is true that Thompson was probably actively seeking his prostitute in the West End, but what points to Thompson staying at the Providence Row Shelter was that unlike other shelters, Providence Row, was a Catholic friendly shelter that restricted its clientele. If I may quote here the Casebook dissertation on this refuge,

‘The rules provided that "no vagrants, tramps or professional beggars should be admitted even for one night… All persons seeking accommodation were supposed to give the names of referees to whom inquiries could be made, and if the replies were unsatisfactory the applicant was told to leave.’

This only allowed for people who had some form of income. Providence Row was non-denominational, but the charity that ran it was the Catholic Sister’s of Mercy. His friend Canon Carroll, or fellow Catholic Wilfrid Meynell, who had worked as a volunteer himself at refuges, could have provided Thompson, an ex seminary student with a reference stating he was now employed as writer. In this case he would have been made most welcome at Providence Row. Thompson himself spoke highly of Providence Row in his essay on the life of St. Ignatius. To sum up, Thompson favored this refuge and it is likely he stayed there, at the time of the Whitechapel murders.

Richard,

It would be interesting to see your 1888 chronology for Thompson - if it's not too much trouble.

Gary

[MayBea]

Fact is: Geo-profilers "triangulate" the unknown suspects residence, place of work and recreation area (pub) based on the crime scenes. Local theory almost depends on a triangulation.

http://www.popcenter.org/learning/60...cs/step_16.gif

However, the residence, workplace and pub should be on the points of the triangle and the crimes on or around the lines or inside or outside the triangle.

You're also not supposed to have two triangles.

"Outsider theory"?

[Wickerman]

First I am using terms carefully here so I used the words ‘most likely living in Whitechapel’. Walsh does not have his dates wrong. I have written a chronology of Thompson in 1888, and I’m happy to share it if you ask for it.

Richard, some current theorists can't even place their suspects in England, never mind in London. With the rail access to the East End it really doesn't matter where in London Thompson was. So long as he had easy access to the East End, and clearly he did, then that is sufficient.

Thompson himself spoke highly of Providence Row in his essay on the life of St. Ignatius. To sum up, Thompson favored this refuge and it is likely he stayed there, at the time of the Whitechapel murders.

He could just as easily have read about the place, if you can't place him there by his own words or the words of others, then I would not try to massage the issue. It will look like you are forcing it.

The biggest problem I recall was this business about him being in a hospital at the time of the Kelly murder. That really needs clearing up (unless I missed it? - sorry if that is the case).
That was really the only impediment I remember at the moment.

[Wickerman]

Sensible feedback, ladies & gentlemen.

Speaking as a customer, essentially that is what the reader is.
I totally agree, there is too much icing being put on this cake.
Please Richard, stick with the meat & potatoes, the real solid tangible "evidence".
I had never considered Thompson much before Richard came forward recently, and I admitted then, that there are certain details which do make him a reasonable suspect.
Descending into geometrical hocus-pocus is cheapening the theory, it is making him a laughing stock, in my opinion. We have already had "vesica piscis" introduced with a couple of earlier 'fringe' suspects - really, it doesn't go over well.

The customer is always right Richard

[GUT]

I agree wholeheartedly with Dane's excellent post.

Thompson does have a lot of things going for him as a suspect. But I've become rather irritated with Richard's attempts to find him killing to a pattern, whether related to the patron saint days of certain occupations, or the all-too-familiar geometry of designs in the locations of the murders, which has shown up before in Ripperlogy.
Yes, the more outlandish aspects of this theory do produce more comment, and that is to be expected. I don't think you need to ascribe to the poor man more genius than his poetry demonstrates, to have him try to fit his murders into a complex schematic, in the effort to produce the additional "new" evidence Dale mentions.
As for the intertwined crowns of laurels and thorns on Thompson's tombstone, I think that is a fitting and touching tribute to a man who won both glory and experienced great suffering during his lifetime.

The Facts, just give us the facts.

Richard wants to over egg the pudding, with Saints Days and Patterns, next there'll be table cloths with DNA.

[Scott Nelson]

Did Francis Thompson know Ernest Dowson?

[Amanda Sumner]

Some very sensible posts. I think Francis Thompson is a very solid suspect and does have a lot going for him. I also agree that too many angles can confuse the main points and those points seem to point to Francis being possibly the murderer, in my opinion. All the evidence is circumstantial but there is no doubt in my mind that he is one of the strongest contenders put forward recently. We are a long way from being "case closed" and until there is definitive proof it will probably always remain so, but I'm glad it is being sensibly discussed here. I've almost finished Richard's book and there is no doubt the extent of this man's research. I really wish him the best and encourage him to continue looking into it.

[Pcdunn]

I agree wholeheartedly with Dane's excellent post.

Thompson does have a lot of things going for him as a suspect. But I've become rather irritated with Richard's attempts to find him killing to a pattern, whether related to the patron saint days of certain occupations, or the all-too-familiar geometry of designs in the locations of the murders, which has shown up before in Ripperlogy.
Yes, the more outlandish aspects of this theory do produce more comment, and that is to be expected. I don't think you need to ascribe to the poor man more genius than his poetry demonstrates, to have him try to fit his murders into a complex schematic, in the effort to produce the additional "new" evidence Dale mentions.
As for the intertwined crowns of laurels and thorns on Thompson's tombstone, I think that is a fitting and touching tribute to a man who won both glory and experienced great suffering during his lifetime.