Only a 0.000003 chance the Ripper murderer was not a religious fanatic

[Richard Patterson]

Here's a list of saints for the first 12 days of August:



St. Hope
St. Sofia
St. Alphonsus
St. Charity
St. Peter in Chains
St. Almedha
St. Alphonsus Marie Liguori
St. Arcadius
St. Verus
Bl. Thomas Welbourne
St. Secundel
St. Dominic Van Honh Dieu
St. Eluned
St. Ethelwold of Winchester
St. Exuperius of Bayeux
St. Friard
St. Jonatus
St. Justin
St. Leontius
St. Leus
St. Rioch
St. Mary the Consoler
St. Peregrinus
Bl. Martyrs of Nowogrodek

August
2

St. Eusebius of Vercelli
St. Peter Julian Eymard
St. Alfreda
St. Betharius
St. Boetharius
St. Theodota
St. Thomas of Dover
St. Rutilius
St. Maximus of Padua
St. Peter of Osma
St. Plegmund

August
3

St. Lydia Purpuraria
St. Abibas
St. Aspren
St. Waltheof of Melrose
St. Trea
St. Senach
St. Dalmatius of Constantinople
St. Euphronius
St. Gamaliel
St. Faustus
St. Peter of Anagni

August
4

St. John Vianney
St. Agabius
St. Aristarchus
Bl. William Horne
St. Tertullinus
St. Eleutherius
St. Epimachus
St. Euphronius
St. John Baptist Vianney
St. Lua
St. Raynerius of Spalatro
St. Peregrinus, Maceratus, and Viventius
Bl. Frederick Jansoone

August
5

St. Abel
St. Addal
St. Afra
St. Venantius
St. Theodoric
St. Cantidius
St. Cassian of Autun
St. Emygdius
St. Eusignius
St. Gormcal
St. Nouna
St. Memmius
St. Paris
St. Eusignius

August
6

St. Agapitus
St. Hormisdas Pope
St. James the Syrian
Martyrs of Cardena

August
7

St. Cajetan
St. Cajetan
St. Claudia
St. Agathangelo Noury
St. Albert of Trapani
St. Victricius
St. Secundus
St. Carpophorus
St. Donat
St. Donatian
St. Donatus & Hilarinus
St. Donatus of Besancon
St. Faustus of Milan
St. Hyperechios
St. Peter, Julian, and Companions
St. Acirianus
St. Basicicus of Kemet (Egypt)
Bl. Edmund Bojanowski

August
8

St. Dominic
St. Hormisdas
St. Altman
St. Ternatius
St. Eleutherius & Leonides
St. Ellidius
St. Emilian
St. Gedeon
St. Famianw
Bl. John Felton
St. Leobald
St. Marinus
St. Mary MacKillop
St. Mummolus
St. Myron
St. Mary of the Cross MacKillop

August
9

St. Edith Stein
St. Nathy
St. Amedeus
St. Amor
St. Autor
St. Bandaridus
St. Samuel of Edessa
St. Secundian
St. Serenus
St. Candida Maria of Jesus
St. Domitian of Chalons
St. Firmus & Rusticus
St. Julian
St. Romanus Ostiarius
St. Rusticus
St. Numidicus
St. Maurilius
St. Phelim

August
10

St. Laurentinus
St. Lawrence - Martyr
St. Blane
St. Agilberta
St. Aredius
St. Asteria
St. Thiento & Companions
St. Deusdedit of Canterbury
St. Acrates (Aragawi)
St. James of Manug

August
11

St. Philomena
St. Clare
St. Susanna
St. Lelia
St. Alexander of Comana
St. Attracta
St. Taurinus
St. Tiburtius
St. Chromatius
St. Digna
St. Equitius
St. Francis of St. Mary
St. Gagericus
Bl. Lawrence Nerucci
St. Rufinus

August
12

St. Jane Frances de Chantal
St. Euplius
St. Anicetus
St. Anthony Peter Dich
St. Just
St. Cassian of Benevento
St. Eusebius of Milan
St. Hilaria
St. Jambert
St. James Nam
St. Just
St. Macarius & Julian
St. Merewenna
St. Michael My
St. Murtagh
St. Porcarius
Bl. Karl Leisner
Bl. Isidore Bakanja

What this proves is that not only is the post correct with regards to the JTR victims being killed on saints' days, but it also proves that anyone ever murdered anywhere in the world must have been done so for religious reasons. Great work! Oh, and I didn't list Orthodox saints.

Mike

And how many of these saints were Patron saints. Oh ye of little faith.

[Richard Patterson]

As Richard's list has both Orthodox and Catholic saints, it's a big ole load of hooey. Someone who was a religious "fanatic" wouldn't pick his "saint day" from the wrong religion and randomly stick in an Orthodox like Theodor if he were a Catholic fanatic, and he wouldn't pick the majority of Saint Days on the Catholic spectrum if he were an Orthodox fanatic.

Just idiotic. Because religious fanatics... they are obsessed with their saints, unless they need to kill someone really bad so they'll just adopt another religion's saint for the purpose.

Hmm. Well you seem so intelligent I guess you must be righ... hang on a sec.

http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=2226

[Richard Patterson]

There's only a .000000000003 percent chance that anyone will take anything said on this theory seriously.

Anything? You said it. What a wonderful paradox you present.

[Ausgirl]

You might never buy it - it's priceless.
.

Priceless, worthless. Tomaytos, tomahtos.

So now we're established that Abberline didn't actually suspect midwives, can you show any other police who did?

What actually is priceless is when theorists post their 'precious' on a public forum for commentary, and then get a sore arse when people don't comment the way they'd like, and start sneering and calling them "ignorant".

[Richard Patterson]

Bye for now.

Thanks for all the valuable feedback. Everyone was so kind. So many smart people here. It's really made me think hard about my premise. Here's what I've concluded.

There is only a 0.000003 chance that the Whitechapel murderer was not a religious fanatic. In Catholicism, occupations are protected by patron saints that are venerated in different days of the year. The days for the worshiped saints of butchers, soldiers, midwives, and doctors, fell upon dates of the Ripper's murders. Because these occupations used knives and needed anatomical skill the police suspected, questioned and detained them. A religious fanatic could have chosen to kill on these dates in the belief that he was fulfilling some kind of divine mission. In a year with 15 venerated days matching these occupations, there is a 1 in 24 chance that any date would fall on these saint days. The chance that four dates in a row would fall on one of these saint days is 1 in 344,861*. If it were a one in a hundred chance it would be significant, let alone in the hundreds of thousands. This is the only real lead we have had in the past 127 years. Until they can be discounted, all suspects that showed signs of religious fervor should be investigated. That the killer was a crazed religionist, targeting prostitutes, is an idea is as old as the crimes themselves and an opinion that was held by the bulk of the population. Of the 500 known suspects, the only one that is credible and fits this description is the one I have brought forwards. This is the failed priest, with surgical skill, Francis Thompson.

*This is a rough figure. (365/15)*(364/15)*(363/15)*(362/15) It does not take into account other compounding factors, such as the events occurring either on a weekends or bank holidays or that some dates have the same saint.

I'll leave this conversation to everyone else now. Take care and have a good day.

[Ally]

Anything? You said it. What a wonderful paradox you present.

I guess you didn't bother to read to the end of that paragraph where it said:

"Nevertheless, he was greatly venerated in the Eastern Church as one of the three "Soldier Saints," with George and Demetrios. "

The Eastern church is not the Roman Catholic Church.

[Pcdunn]

Eastern and Western Christianity

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_church

The offshoots of Western Christianity (Roman Catholicism) and of Eastern Christianity (several branches, including Eastern Catholic Church) do all have their roots in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
But yes, they're not identical.

I checked out the Saints listing at Catholics Online, looking for a "St. Theodor", as was quoted in an earlier post. Dozens and dozens of Theodores, Theodorics, Theodoras appeared, but no "Theodor". Then I clicked on the link the OP provided to "St. Theodore of Tryo" and realized I had been working off a misspelled name. (Hey, it happens).

The thing to remember here, I think, is not so much whether a Saint is really a Catholic or not, but that Mr. Thompson didn't have an iPad or smartphone and access to the Catholic Online database.

He had, at best, a four volume set of Butler's Lives of the Saints, possibly other books and documents in a seminary library, possibly a Catholic listing (or "calendar of the saints"). How can we be sure the saints' days he is said to have
chosen to murder on were ACTUALLY listed on his source material?
I don't think we can, without access to the same materials available in his era.

[lynn cates]

vocative case

Hello Richard.

"Oh ye of little faith."

Umm? Perhaps:

"O ye of little faith."

Vocative, you know.

Cheers.
LC

[Karl]

In a year with 15 venerated days matching these occupations,

But here is the flaw in your reasoning. Why these specific occupations? The answer is because those were the days the murders happened to be committed. But none of them on a day venerating the patron saints of surgeons, social justice, the sick or whatever. You choose soldiers, butchers, doctors and midwives as significant because they match the days of the murders. That's placing the cart before the horse. Why not first decide which patron saints the Ripper might find significant, and then see if the dates match? I can see how a case can be made for butchers, certainly. And to some extent, soldiers. But were he religiously motivated he would surely choose surgeons above doctors, and I have no idea why he should choose midwives. I'm sorry, it doesn't fit.

[Shaggyrand]

Ok, I know this is an old topic and my question might have been answered- I only skimmed the thread but...
Why does he use the Julian Calendar feast day for only one, St. Adrian? He doesn't use the Gregorian feast day which he used for the others. St. Adrian's day should be 1 December, not 8 September. Any explanations or theories for that?

[Rosella]

^ Didn't fit the theory?

[Shaggyrand]

^ Didn't fit the theory?

Actually, it does. I was writing from memory and the 1 December is the feast day that he shares with his wife, St. Natalia, but he does also have a solo feast days on 4 March and 8 September. Was just about to edit it. Sorry, my bad.

Edit: It won't let me edit pervious post... So I guess I gotta let it stand. My bad.

[Rosella]

So your encyclopaedic knowledge of Saints Days in the RC, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant Churches let you down on this occasion, Shaggy? Don't let this happen again!

I just can't see Jack as the deeply religious type somehow, even if he was a zealot. Poring over Calendars of the Saints in order to synchronise his killings? More likely a few beers at the pub!

[c.d.]

I can't help be reminded of religious groups that predict the day the world will end. When it doesn't happen they say we must have miscalculated. Back to the drawing board.

Methinks this is chasing the wild goose.

c.d.

[Richard Patterson]

But here is the flaw in your reasoning. Why these specific occupations? The answer is because those were the days the murders happened to be committed. But none of them on a day venerating the patron saints of surgeons, social justice, the sick or whatever. You choose soldiers, butchers, doctors and midwives as significant because they match the days of the murders. That's placing the cart before the horse. Why not first decide which patron saints the Ripper might find significant, and then see if the dates match? I can see how a case can be made for butchers, certainly. And to some extent, soldiers. But were he religiously motivated he would surely choose surgeons above doctors, and I have no idea why he should choose midwives. I'm sorry, it doesn't fit.

Deciding, which patron saints the Ripper might find significant, would depend on the type of Ripper suspect, you care to choose. That would be putting the cart before the horse. I simply saw that the types of occupations the police suspected to be the ripper's , soldiers, butchers, doctors and midwives were those occupations, on the dates of the murders, that were protected.