The Jack the Ripper Mystery is Finally Solved — Scientifically

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  • Herlock Sholmes
    Commissioner
    • May 2017
    • 23095

    #481
    Originally posted by Fiver View Post
    Just as I posted Richard’s ‘and others’ casually slipped in earlier we now have ‘and surgical kits.’ I wonder what’s next? This kind of thing would have your average Cross supporter applauding.
    Herlock Sholmes

    ”I don’t know who Jack the Ripper was…and neither do you.”

    Comment

    • Fiver
      Assistant Commissioner
      • Oct 2019
      • 3443

      #482
      Originally posted by Doctored Whatsit View Post
      3. Smith's five point profile has no relevance whatever to identifying JtR -

      a) As I have said many times, ex-medical student being a trait, is just a possibility, as JtR could have been a fully qualified doctor or surgeon or slaughterer, for example. Indeed, killing coldly, efficiently and quickly, slitting the throat from behind to avoid getting blood on hands or clothes, would be routine for a slaughterer, but is not taught in medical school. So JtR being an ex-medical student is just one possibility out of several.

      b) There is no evidence that JtR ever attended an asylum, so someone who attended an asylum at some time would just be a possible suspect, but no more so than someone who hadn't attended an asylum. It has therefore no grounds for suspicion and is of no mathematical value.

      c) There is no evidence that JtR associated with prostitutes, other than to kill them. Therefore association with prostitutes is not a usable clue.

      d) There is no evidence that JtR indulged in coin trickery, so therefore this is not a usable trait that steers us in any useful direction.

      e) There is no evidence that JtR lived in Haymarket or thereabouts. So this is not a helpful concept.
      Richard also ignores a lot of things that Smith said.

      * Smith's suspect was found and was proven innocent.

      "I thought he was likely to be in Rupert Street, Haymarket. I sent up two men, and there he was ; but, polished farthings and all, he proved an alibi without the shadow of doubt."

      * Smith did not think the Ripper must have had medical training.

      " In addition to this, I visited every butcher's shop in the city, and every nook and corner which might, by any possibility, be the murderer's place of concealment."

      * Smith did not say the Ripper must have lived in Haymarket.

      "Did he live close to the scene of action ? or did he, after committing a murder, make his way with lightning speed to some retreat in the suburbs?"

      * Smith believed his best lead was from a man who claimed ""the man you want is not in London, he's in Manchester. What you think is his writing isn't. He writes just like an orderly-room clerk."

      "I waited patiently for the promised visit, and confidently for a further communication from the missioner. The man never came, nor was I able to get the missioner's handwriting identified. Had either of them asked for money, I would have sent it willingly, believing, as I did, that at last I was on the right scent ; but I never had any such application from either."
      Last edited by Fiver; Today, 09:40 PM.
      "The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren

      "Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer

      Comment

      • Doctored Whatsit
        Sergeant
        • May 2021
        • 805

        #483
        Originally posted by Richard Patterson View Post

        Doctored,

        I see where you’re getting tangled. You keep asking me to prove the Ripper himself had these five traits. That isn’t what I’m claiming — and it isn’t how historical suspect profiles work. Let me lay it out more clearly.

        1. What Smith’s five traits are.

        They’re not the “DNA markers of the killer.” They’re the written description of a man who, at the time, was taken seriously enough to be noted in memoirs and testimony. That makes them a suspect profile not a universal law.

        2. Why the profile matters.

        If nobody in the record matched all five, then the description would fade into irrelevance. But Thompson does match them, uniquely. That moves him out of the mass of “possible oddballs” and into a very narrow corridor defined by a contemporary police source.

        3. Where this takes us.

        You say this only proves “Smith might have suspected Thompson.” But that’s not trivial. In a case where hundreds of suspects have been thrown about, showing that one man aligns precisely with a senior officer’s recorded description is significant. And when that same man also brings independent evidence — advanced anatomical training, surgical instruments, violent verse, timeline collapse — the cumulative picture strengthens.

        4. The confusion cleared.

        You don’t need to accept that the Ripper must have had all five traits. You only need to accept that an officer recorded a profile, and Thompson alone fits it to the letter. That’s not proof beyond doubt, but it is a collapse of coincidence. From there, the rest of Thompson’s biography is not just “Smith’s suspect” — it’s the most consistent suspect narrative we have.

        So the five traits aren’t meant to be the final key to the Ripper’s character. They’re the filter that lets us see why Thompson can’t be dismissed. The cumulative evidence doesn’t stop at Smith’s profile; it starts there.
        Yes, Richard, I understood all of this a long time ago, and if I didn't get it the first time, I would have understood the second timed, and the third time ....

        Yes, it's specifically Smith's suspect profile, and when you apply it to Thompson and you tell us it fits perfectly, I say "so what?" Smith constructed five traits which he believed relate to a suspect and you tell us that this moves Thompson "into a very narrow corridor defined by a contemporary police source." I have said, give us some evidence that the five traits are relevant to JtR, which four are not, and only one might possibly be, and you say they "aren't meant to be the final key to the Ripper's character. They're the filter that let's us see why Thompson can't be dismissed." They seem to be a filter that doesn't filter out much that appears irrelevant.

        We all understand that you are not working from direct factual information relating purely to the Ripper, but to the observations of one man who may or may not have had some relevant suspicions. If they were relevant then all is well and it would have some merit to pursue the issue. If the suspicions were groundless, then further pursuit is a waste of everyones' time. As we know that there is no evidence that four of his traits apply to JtR, and that one is only a possibility, then I have been suggesting that there is no evidence that Smith's traits would lead to the Ripper, even if they did lead, according to you, to Thompson.

        The so-called "cumulative evidence" is just a collection of interesting information. He carried a scalpel, apparently to shave with, he said, because he later asked for a razor. But of course, possessing a scalpel is suspicious. There was violence in his poetry! Literature is not real life, no matter what it portrays. Samuel Taylor Coleridge, another laudanum enthusiast, wrote of the voyage of the Ancient Mariner, but hadn't himself travelled the world by sea, and wrote of "a stately pleasure dome" in Xanadu, but never had any connection with any of this! Colin Dexter devised numerous murders in his novels for his Inspector Morse to solve, but nobody suggests that Dexter was a serial killer! Having a prostitute lover doesn't make Thompson a prostitute killer.

        I was fascinated by your recent suggestion that living rough had toughened him, as I believe that all of the evidence I have seen suggested that it almost killed him!

        Let's end this debate because we are not going to agree, everyone knows exactly what we are going to say, and we must be boring our readers with endless repeats.
        Last edited by Doctored Whatsit; Today, 10:23 PM.

        Comment

        • Scott Nelson
          Superintendent
          • Feb 2008
          • 2472

          #484
          Originally posted by Fiver View Post
          In addition to this, I visited every butcher's shop in the city, and every nook and corner which might, by any possibility, be the murderer's place of concealment."
          This quote from Smith's book suggests he was influenced by the proximity to the Mitre Square murder to Aldgate (Butcher's Row).

          Comment

          • Richard Patterson
            Sergeant
            • Mar 2012
            • 666

            #485
            Originally posted by Fiver View Post

            You aren't using the facts. You are ignoring them.

            Here are Smiths' actual words.

            "After the second crime I sent word to Sir Charles Warren that I had discovered a man very likely to be the man wanted. He certainly had all the qualifications requisite. He had been a medical student ; he had been in a lunatic asylum ; he spent all his time with women of loose character, whom he bilked by giving them polished farthings instead of sovereigns, two of these farthings having been found in the pocket of the murdered woman. Sir Charles failed to find him. I thought he was likely to be in Rupert Street, Haymarket. I sent up two men, and there he was; but, polished farthings and all, he proved an alibi without the shadow of doubt."

            * "He had been a medical student"
            Matches Francis Thompson.
            Matches what the police believed about Oswald Puckridge.

            * "he had been in a lunatic asylum"
            Does not match Francis Thompson.
            Matches Oswald Puckridge.

            * "he spent all his time with women of loose character", which you falsify as "prostitute connections".
            Does not match Francis Thompson.
            Might match Oswald Puckridge.

            * "whom he bilked by giving them polished farthings instead of sovereigns", which you falsify as "coin trick".
            Does not match Francis Thompson.
            Might match Oswald Puckridge.

            * "I thought he was likely to be in Rupert Street, Haymarket", which you falsify as "Haymarket residence".
            Does not match Francis Thompson.
            Matches Oswald Puckridge.

            You are ignoring Thompson's verifiable biography and claiming Smith said things that Smith never said.

            And you keep ignoring the sixth and most important trait of Smith's suspect "he proved an alibi without the shadow of doubt".

            If you believe that Francis Thompson is the Ripper, then you should be doing everything in your power to prove that Smith's innocent suspect was not Francis Thompson. Instead, you are arguing for a match that proves Thompson is innocent.​​​
            Fiver,

            I’ll take your objections in order:

            1. Medical student.

            Yes — this matches Thompson directly. Puckridge also studied medicine. The question is not whether others were ever students, but who matches the entire set of descriptors together.

            2. “In a lunatic asylum.”

            Here we have the terminology problem. Victorian memoirs and reports routinely blurred “asylum,” “priory,” and “hospital.” Thompson’s confinement at the Priory was psychiatric, for breakdown and addiction. If we’re being precise about historical usage, it qualifies.

            3. “Spent all his time with women of loose character.”

            This is exactly what “prostitute connections” means. Thompson lived rough among prostitutes for years, and his closest relationship (the prostitute who later left him) is acknowledged by every major biography. There is no falsification — it’s the same idea, plainer phrasing.

            4. “Bilking them with polished farthings.”

            This story is in circulation in connection with Thompson. I’ve cited it transparently as the coin-trick element. You can argue about its reliability, but it isn’t invention.

            5. “Likely to be in Rupert Street.”

            That doesn’t mean a signed lease. It means presence in the district. Thompson was in Panton Street, literally around the corner, during the relevant period. To dismiss that as “does not match” is to miss the point of geographical nexus.

            6. The alibi.

            Here’s the biggest issue: you treat Smith’s memoir statement of “an alibi without the shadow of doubt” as if it closes the book. Yet even Scotland Yard’s copy of Smith’s memoir carries a handwritten note warning that “his veracity was not always to be trusted.” Smith also boasted he knew more about the murders than any man alive. His alibi story belongs in that context. If we hold his five identifiers as usable, we cannot then elevate his one-sentence dismissal to gospel truth and ignore all else.

            So no, this isn’t “ignoring Thompson’s biography.” It’s the opposite — taking the profile literally, matching it to a candidate who uniquely ticks all the boxes, and pointing out that Smith’s glib alibi line doesn’t outweigh the convergence of evidence.

            And if you insist that Puckridge fits the profile better, then show it in detail. Lay out each trait, his documented addresses, his connections, his medical record, and his timeline. At the moment, Thompson remains the only candidate whose life lines up with the profile, the training, the instruments, and the writings.
            Author of

            "Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

            http://www.francisjthompson.com/

            Comment

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