The Jack the Ripper Mystery is Finally Solved — Scientifically

[John Wheat]

With all due respect John, that is just a statement of opinion in the face of actual presentation of fact.

I never said it was a fact. I'm not prepared to prefix everything I post with in my opinion. Also it's only yours and Fishy's opinion that Frances Thompson is a better suspect than Bury.

[John Wheat]

So how do you reconcile this post with your statement that the chances of there being more than one murderer are virtually zero?

I'm not sure how I can be more understandable. The Torso Killer operated for years. I doubt Mackenzie was killed by a serial killer, same with Frances Coles therefore there was all of a sudden one violent serial killer operating in a small part of London in 1888. That being Jack the Ripper and in my opinion Bury was Jack.

[Doctored Whatsit]

Hi Fishy,

As Prosector has observed, in 1888 the first appendectomy was yet to be performed.

Cheers, George

Sadly Prosector was wrong. The first successful appendectomy took place in 1735. But it was not commonly performed for many years, and was frequently unsuccessful when attempted.

[Mike J. G.]

The fact is that despite us having read of varying experts with differing opinions on the level of medical/anatomical knowledge that the killer might or might not have had we still see it being promoted that the killer must have had high level of knowledge and skill. Why would we, as laymen, read of a surgeon disputing this and yet we feel that we know better. We just don’t know is the answer.

We can’t mould the criteria to fit a subject or a group of subjects. For example, If the killer had read up on anatomy because it gave him a thrill he may also have cut up animals. This would have been done in private which could include any suspect. As the level of skill/knowledge is unknown and disputed we should be wary of using it. Apart from this medical knowledge Thompson’s has nothing to favour his candidature or any proposition that he might have been around at the time (like the violent, drunkard, woman-attacking, knife carrying, prostitute consorting murderer and post mortem mutilator)

I mean, why would anyone favour him over a drug addicted, liked, poet in poor health.

Ed Gein had no medical knowledge, either, but he took apart and then dressed two women like a deer in his shed.

There's scores of evidence of average Joes cutting people up. The internet is rife with footage of cartels flaying and disemboweling rival gang members without issue.

The idea that Kelly was murdered by someone with medical knowledge is not founded in any real evidence.

[Mike J. G.]

Sure thing Mike , My point being that Thompson was able to perform such a procedure where as Bury, as yet has not been shown to or any evidence presented to show the same . Remember are talking about thompsom and bury as suspect goes in the murder of mary kelly . George has already gone into great detail as to the precedure used to remove her heart .

I'm sorry, Fishy, but I'm still unaware of any existing evidence which would indicate that the mutilations seen on Kelly had to have been performed by somebody with medical knowledge. I was under the impression that you had the information which would indicate that medical knowledge was indeed required.

I'm not here arguing for Bury, though I do rate actual killers above and beyond people who have never been shown to have committed violence of any kind.

[FISHY1118]

Hi, Fishy. I'm unaware of any evidence which would indicate that Kelly's heart was removed in any fashion that would suggest that only a person with medical knowledge would be able to perform it.

They estimated that it took the killer 2 hours to perform the mutilations seen on Kelly, which I think is frankly far too big estimate. I don't think it would have taken that long at all.

Again, I think people underestimate what a determined killer can do.

If you've got any solid evidence that indicates that medical knowledge was necessary then I'm all for having a gander.

Cheers

Sure thing Mike , My point being that Thompson was able to perform such a procedure where as Bury, as yet has not been shown to or any evidence presented to show the same . Remember are talking about thompsom and bury as suspect goes in the murder of mary kelly . George has already gone into great detail as to the precedure used to remove her heart .

[Mike J. G.]

Mike, My advice to you would be to look more closely at the discussion as to the ''medical procedure'' used to remove Mary Kellys heart , and the two suspects involved as to which one was more likely to have accomplished the deed . Were talking about specific details and facts in relation to the ripper murders .If you have anything to ad in this area id be glad to hear it . Cheers.

Hi, Fishy. I'm unaware of any evidence which would indicate that Kelly's heart was removed in any fashion that would suggest that only a person with medical knowledge would be able to perform it.

They estimated that it took the killer 2 hours to perform the mutilations seen on Kelly, which I think is frankly far too big estimate. I don't think it would have taken that long at all.

Again, I think people underestimate what a determined killer can do.

If you've got any solid evidence that indicates that medical knowledge was necessary then I'm all for having a gander.

Cheers

[FISHY1118]

So I assume that, in the spirit of fairness, you apply the same principal to William Gull who, as we all know, wasn’t a surgeon either.

Gull wasnt a surgeon but a Physician with a vast degree of medical knowledge , Bury was Neither . In the spirit of fairness we talking about Thompson v Bury as who is a better suspect .

[FISHY1118]

I'm always a bit baffled when people talk about medical knowledge and how some people, like Thompson, would have been able to remove Kelly's heart with ease and people, such as Bury, wouldn't have.

I'm not suggesting that anyone need to have this knowledge, as it's pretty grim, but I do find it a little naive that people discount the fact that we have ample evidence, for instance, of South American gangs cutting rivals up and removing their hearts and heads and all manner of things, on camera, without any issues. Literally going into the chest with a knife and removing a heart in seconds.

The medical knowledge of the Ripper is in doubt. Frankly, I don't see anything in the medical reports that would indicate that the killer was a trained medical professional as opposed to merely being a person who had some experience cutting people up.

I'm not here to argue for Bury, and while I think he's a good suspect, I've no fixed suspect at all and I tend to believe he's not been named. But I don't understand the narrative that an average Joe couldn't have done these murders. You'd be surprised what sick and perverted people can accomplish.

Unless we start assuming that the likes of Isis and the South American drug cartels are all medically trained professionals who just happened to leave the trade in favour of extremism and criminal activity.

Mike, My advice to you would be to look more closely at the discussion as to the ''medical procedure'' used to remove Mary Kellys heart , and the two suspects involved as to which one was more likely to have accomplished the deed . Were talking about specific details and facts in relation to the ripper murders .If you have anything to ad in this area id be glad to hear it . Cheers.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The fact is that despite us having read of varying experts with differing opinions on the level of medical/anatomical knowledge that the killer might or might not have had we still see it being promoted that the killer must have had high level of knowledge and skill. Why would we, as laymen, read of a surgeon disputing this and yet we feel that we know better. We just don’t know is the answer.

We can’t mould the criteria to fit a subject or a group of subjects. For example, If the killer had read up on anatomy because it gave him a thrill he may also have cut up animals. This would have been done in private which could include any suspect. As the level of skill/knowledge is unknown and disputed we should be wary of using it. Apart from this medical knowledge Thompson’s has nothing to favour his candidature or any proposition that he might have been around at the time (like the violent, drunkard, woman-attacking, knife carrying, prostitute consorting murderer and post mortem mutilator)

I mean, why would anyone favour him over a drug addicted, liked, poet in poor health.

[FISHY1118]

Bury was a murderer and post mortem mutilator and head and shoulders above any other Ripper suspect.

However the facts of Mary Kellys murder suggest he wasnt her killer . Therefor a poor suspect in relation to Thompson

[Herlock Sholmes]

Please provide Evidence Which ''Doctor'' exactly that couldnt agree with Dr Bonds description of the way Mary Kellys heart was removed ? That old arguement of 'Dr couldnt agree on medical knowledge '' is used way to broadly to support many suspects without such knowledge , totally ignoring the one with it .
'
So again, can you provide any ''Factual Evidence'' Bury was able to remove mary kellys heart in the way Dr Bond expert medical opinion tells us it was ?


Bury is a murderer yes , but a poor suspect as JtR due to his unknown medical knowledge in regards to Mary Kelly heart removal procedure ,which as we all know Thompson was well versed in . So a better suspect he makes .

So I assume that, in the spirit of fairness, you apply the same principal to William Gull who, as we all know, wasn’t a surgeon either.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I was new to Casebook when Mr. Patterson first began promoting poet Francis Thompson as JtR. I argued against his notion then. I'm very much aghast at this return of this nonsensical idea.
Next to blaming Lewis Carroll or Vincent Van Gogh, it's absurdity in the extreme. Thompson is an honored English poet, and this attempt to "cancel" his reputation for a supposed connection to Jack the Ripper is just too much!

Well said Pat. There’s too much of this ‘pick someone just because they were alive at the time’ stuff going on.

[Mike J. G.]

I'm always a bit baffled when people talk about medical knowledge and how some people, like Thompson, would have been able to remove Kelly's heart with ease and people, such as Bury, wouldn't have.

I'm not suggesting that anyone need to have this knowledge, as it's pretty grim, but I do find it a little naive that people discount the fact that we have ample evidence, for instance, of South American gangs cutting rivals up and removing their hearts and heads and all manner of things, on camera, without any issues. Literally going into the chest with a knife and removing a heart in seconds.

The medical knowledge of the Ripper is in doubt. Frankly, I don't see anything in the medical reports that would indicate that the killer was a trained medical professional as opposed to merely being a person who had some experience cutting people up.

I'm not here to argue for Bury, and while I think he's a good suspect, I've no fixed suspect at all and I tend to believe he's not been named. But I don't understand the narrative that an average Joe couldn't have done these murders. You'd be surprised what sick and perverted people can accomplish.

Unless we start assuming that the likes of Isis and the South American drug cartels are all medically trained professionals who just happened to leave the trade in favour of extremism and criminal activity.

[GBinOz]

Bury was a murderer and post mortem mutilator and head and shoulders above any other Ripper suspect.

With all due respect John, that is just a statement of opinion in the face of actual presentation of fact.