The Jack the Ripper Mystery is Finally Solved — Scientifically

[FISHY1118]

Then why did Dr. Bond, standing there with Kelly’s body in front of him, say “I tell you what chaps, I’m really impressed by the skill that this killer exhibited in removing the heart.”

But he didn’t did he? He actually said:

“In my opinion he does not even possess the technical knowledge of a butcher or horse slaughterer or any person accustomed to cut up dead animals.”


Can anyone tell us why we should completely dismiss what Bond said?

To be fair it wasnt Dr Bonds job to ''Marvel'' the way in which Kellys heart was removed, it was his job to give an opinion as to how it was removed . Just as it was that he gave his opinion as to the Mutilations , the first was a description of a known medical technique of the removal of the heart, the other his clear observation of kelly senseless mutilations that which any mad man could have done .

Whos to say the killer didnt remove kellys organs first in a way that was precise , carefully and with medical accuracy ? then only after did he, in a frenzy befitting his M.O set about slaughtering her for his own benifit afterwards ,he had plenty of time remember .

[Doctored Whatsit]

Then why did Dr. Bond, standing there with Kelly’s body in front of him, say “I tell you what chaps, I’m really impressed by the skill that this killer exhibited in removing the heart.”

But he didn’t did he? He actually said:

“In my opinion he does not even possess the technical knowledge of a butcher or horse slaughterer or any person accustomed to cut up dead animals.”


Can anyone tell us why we should completely dismiss what Bond said?

Absolutely Herlock, if someone is going to claim that Bond stated that JtR employed an up to date medical procedure in removing the heart, then that person should quote all of what Bond said, and not just the convenient bit, and his conclusion was clear - no evidence of any anatomical knowledge, not even that of a butcher/slaughterer.

[GBinOz]

Then why did Dr. Bond, standing there with Kelly’s body in front of him, say “I tell you what chaps, I’m really impressed by the skill that this killer exhibited in removing the heart.”

But he didn’t did he? He actually said:

“In my opinion he does not even possess the technical knowledge of a butcher or horse slaughterer or any person accustomed to cut up dead animals.”


Can anyone tell us why we should completely dismiss what Bond said?

Hi Herlock,

Read a little of Bond's history, and Prosector's comments on him. Compare his opinion to that of Phillips and Brown.

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

I guess the bold section is where we differ , i cant do speculation and the possibility that Bury might have somehow acquired such knowledge . I can only go by what is known as opposed to what is not where any suspects are concerned ,and what is currenty known about both in the area of medical procedure removal of Mary Kellys heart, i tend to favour Thompson a better suspect than Bury .

Everyone speculates Fishy. It’s unavoidable. What you are, in effect, saying is that we should eliminate anything that’s possible if we can’t prove it definitively. In this case we are talking about a contended issue; one that isn’t a certainty. But there are things that we know for certain though. We know that we have no evidence of Thompson being violent but we do have evidence of Bury being violent. We don’t have evidence of Thompson killing anyone but we know that Bury did. We have no evidence of Thompson ever performing acts of mutilation but we know that Bury did. Surely these are more pertinent facts than the uncertainty of the killers level of knowledge/skill.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Then why did Dr. Bond, standing there with Kelly’s body in front of him, say “I tell you what chaps, I’m really impressed by the skill that this killer exhibited in removing the heart.”

But he didn’t did he? He actually said:

“In my opinion he does not even possess the technical knowledge of a butcher or horse slaughterer or any person accustomed to cut up dead animals.”


Can anyone tell us why we should completely dismiss what Bond said?

[GBinOz]

My issue with Thompson is, as far as being even remotely close to what we could consider as being Ripper-like, he wasn't close at all. He wrote poetry and may have dated a prostitute.

If, though, it's a genuine fact that MJK's heart was proven to have been removed in a certain manner, and Thompson can be shown, provably, that he had the knowledge to perform that procedure, that's a different story... But I suspect that's not the case.

Hi Mike,

Thompson stated that he was rescued by a prostitute who nurtured him through his bad times, but left when he achieved a measure of poetic notoriety on the basis that she would hold him back. He stated that he searched for her after her departure but it was never clear as to his motive - was he trying to re-establish the former relationship or was he seeking revenge for a perceived abandonment?

The standard procedure at the time for access to the heart was via the rib cage using a rib spreader. Virchow taught an alternative method whereby the heart could be accessed via the abdominal cavity. Thompson was a pupil of Virchow. If the purpose was a slash and grab this would involve cutting out the heart together with its fibrous sheath known as the pericardium. But this is not what happened. According to the autopsy notes, the heart was surgically removed from the pericardium, leaving the latter in place. If you consider that you probably have a similar knowledge of the structure of the heart and its sheath to that of the likes of Bury, do you think you could have achieved this task?

Cheers, George

[FISHY1118]

Allo, Fishy,

So it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the heart was undoubtedly removed in this fashion, and it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Thompson (not being physically fit and healthy aside) knew how to perform this procedure?

I'm just perplexed that if we know both of these things as facts, why Thompson isn't put onto a grander stage by all and sundry in the Ripper community.

If, as I'm presuming, none of it is without its uncertainty, then we're back to square one. "Square one" being us not having a clue one way or another who could have done the murder and mutilation, effectively not ruling anyone out who was physically able and could conceivably be in the area.

If it's a solid fact that the killer of MJK had to have been medically trained, then Thompson doesn't come close to Chapman, IMO, who was in the area, physically able, and a murderer of women.

Cheers

1 YESSSS

2. YESSSS .

3 . So am I.

[FISHY1118]

I talked about motive. What you're talking about here has nothing to do with motive.

I was talking about the Medical Procedure /Technique used to remove Mary Kellys heart ,and why thompson was abetter than bury becasue of it . You can feel free to discuss motive about any of the murders if you like . Im just giving you the facts as per Dr Bonds post mortem report .

Lets be also clear where Dr Bonds is concerned, at no point did he ever say the ''Internal Organs'' that were removed from of Mary Kelly abdoman showed no medical skill or knowledge . The ''quote'' being used by some to describe Bond saying the ''killer had no such skill'' is used by Dr Bond with the specific use of the words ''The Mutilations'' Not the internal organs .

[Mike J. G.]

One thing we know about Bury, is he mutilated his wife's corpse after death, and made some cuts near the genital regions. Could be something, could be nothing, but it's not insignificant.

My issue with Thompson is, as far as being even remotely close to what we could consider as being Ripper-like, he wasn't close at all. He wrote poetry and may have dated a prostitute.

If, though, it's a genuine fact that MJK's heart was proven to have been removed in a certain manner, and Thompson can be shown, provably, that he had the knowledge to perform that procedure, that's a different story... But I suspect that's not the case.

[Mike J. G.]

Hi Mike , Ive had this same debate with Trevor M. Its important to know the difference between the ''Mutilations'' and ''Organ Removal'' , of course any idiot can mutilate but the way in which Mary Kellys heart was removed according to Dr Bonds post mortem report was a newly known Medical technique at the time of the murders . Which as ive already stated, there is no known evidence Bury ever new how to or had such knowledge of such a technique ,where as Thompson new exactly how to perform it . I hope that clears things up . cheers.

Allo, Fishy,

So it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the heart was undoubtedly removed in this fashion, and it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Thompson (not being physically fit and healthy aside) knew how to perform this procedure?

I'm just perplexed that if we know both of these things as facts, why Thompson isn't put onto a grander stage by all and sundry in the Ripper community.

If, as I'm presuming, none of it is without its uncertainty, then we're back to square one. "Square one" being us not having a clue one way or another who could have done the murder and mutilation, effectively not ruling anyone out who was physically able and could conceivably be in the area.

If it's a solid fact that the killer of MJK had to have been medically trained, then Thompson doesn't come close to Chapman, IMO, who was in the area, physically able, and a murderer of women.

Cheers

[GBinOz]

They are not facts they are Dr Bond's opinion.

I have never before observed someone claiming that an autopsy report is just an opinion. If this is the standard to be established we are all wasting our time.

[FISHY1118]

True enough but we’ve seen on here how opinion from the medical experts on the ripper’s possible medical or anatomical knowledge varies. There appears to be no consensus so we shouldn’t assume that he did or didn’t or rather as to what level of knowledge or skill. If it was an absolutely proven fact, agreed to by every medical expert that we could ask, then yes, on that aspect Thompson’s would score higher than Bury; it still wouldn’t make him a particularly strong suspect though. That said, as we don’t have exhaustive biographies of most suspects, so we don’t know if any given suspect might have acquired some anatomical knowledge or knife skills at some point. Many of the poor took work where they could and often moved between different types of work so how can we be certain that someone didn’t spend time working in a slaughterhouse for example?

So, if we park this disputed area for a while, and examine Thompson and Bury then I’d find it strange if anyone could rate Thompson above Bury for very obvious reasons.

I guess the bold section is where we differ , i cant do speculation and the possibility that Bury might have somehow acquired such knowledge . I can only go by what is known as opposed to what is not where any suspects are concerned ,and what is currenty known about both in the area of medical procedure removal of Mary Kellys heart, i tend to favour Thompson a better suspect than Bury .

[FISHY1118]

They are not facts they are Dr Bond's opinion.

There the facts of how Mary Kellys heart was removed .

[John Wheat]

I did , and there not supposed ,they are the facts . DR bonds post mortem report .

They are not facts they are Dr Bond's opinion.

[FISHY1118]

Name these supposed facts please?

I did , and there not supposed ,they are the facts . DR bonds post mortem report .