Mary Jane Wilson

[Trapperologist]

A relative of MJW’s London in-laws, the Gould family, has been contacted on Ancestry. His mother in London was a Gould and her father was Angelica Gould’s great nephew and he son confirms the existence of a deep, dark family secret kept by his grandfather, Alan Gould. I doubt it’s just Angelica’s one daughter marrying Rosalie Ochse’s son and the other daughter having to be “rescued” by the City Missionary in Whitechapel.

[Trapperologist]

I’m trying to figure out why Jane Wilson changed the date of birth of her nephew William to 1888 from 1887 (Above post 185). I don’t see what difference that would make regarding MJW’s identity or his illegitimacy.

The only thing I can think of is that she was persuaded to change his date of birth after reading about the Captain Verney trial in 1892. Or she feared the real father might come looking in the workhouse for his son. Changing the date of birth would confuse everything as would the listing of her mother as Jane instead of Mary Jane and alive instead of dead.

[Trapperologist]

Marys story includes time as a brothel consort, which could well have introduced her to people above her actual social status. She was taken to Paris....hardly a lower class destination.

Thanks, Mike. We only have Mary’s word that she worked in a high end bordello in the West End. I think she came “respectable” and worked as a servant there. Either way, she would have been in contact with the well-off. The demographics of their clientele would be virtually the same. A prostitute might serve a blue-collar worker but would have more chance than a servant to work for an aristocrat.

[Joshua Rogan]

Marys story includes time as a brothel consort, which could well have introduced her to people above her actual social status. She was taken to Paris....hardly a lower class destination.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_Paris_and_London

[Michael W Richards]

The earliest place we can start with any certainty is some 4 years before Kelly's death, when she was knocking about down the Ratcliff Highway and later Stepney, when she was in relationships with "Morganstone" and Joseph Fleming, before hooking up with Joe Barnett and eventually moving to Spitalfields.

This doesn't give much time, or "geographical opportunity" (if I can put it that way) for Florence Pash to get to know Mary Kelly - or whatever her real name was - still less keep track of her.

Marys story includes time as a brothel consort, which could well have introduced her to people above her actual social status. She was taken to Paris....hardly a lower class destination.

[Trapperologist]

I’m trying to figure out why Jane Wilson changed the date of birth of her nephew William to 1888 from 1887 (Above post 185). I don’t see what difference that would make regarding MJW’s identity or his illegitimacy.

[Trapperologist]

When it was found that Jane Wilson was possibly impersonating MJW in 1888 in the Workhouse, I went all in for the Single Impostor Theory when it was found that "MJW" died as "Jane Wilson" in 1889. Odds are that there was only one and it was the quick and easy way to prove the point. Just show that Jane Wilson disappeared after 1889. It turned out aunt Jane Wilson was still alive after 1900. So she wasn't the Jane Wilson who died 1889.

Did that really mean there was no Impostor, not even a Single One? Hold on a second there. I see another light at the end of another rabbit hole. Going back over the old ground, it was found Jane Wilson was indeed acting as a Single Impostor in the 1892 register after MJW was surely dead. So the Single Impostor Theory was proven after all and my point should have been proven, surely. I shouldn't be the only one jumping to the Double Impostor Theory when the Single One was proven. Of course, there's the Mary Kelly Survived and came back only to die of illness in 1889 option.

P.S. William said he was raised by two aunts, not by his mother - one was aunt Jane Wilson. The identity of the other aunt is uncertain but an "aunt" could be anyone.

[Trapperologist]

Remember this is a 1892 orphanage record with the "updates" penciled in after the original admission entry.

This has to be the aunt Jane Wilson who was masquerading as MJW in the workhouse in 1888 using the name Jane Wilson born 1847 which matches her. Everyone agrees MJW is dead by 1889, so there's no problem with the Single Impostor Theory.

[Trapperologist]

G'Day, Roy.

I thought Florence met Mary in 1885. I no longer hold to the MJK survived theory. That's too romantic even for me. But the impersonator of MJW is a proven fact, unless you believe in major clerical errors where an aunt is penciled in as the mother in orphanage records of children with both parents proven to be dead. (Children can be admitted without being actual orphans.)

[Roy Corduroy]

Good afternoon Trapper and welcome to the discussion group,

...the grandmother and her sister-in-law who was impersonating her even after everyone agrees MJW was dead. ...

So Florence Pash met an impersonater after 1890 when Mary Jane Wilson died? Is that when the Royal Theory began? It would explain a lot of things.

Roy

[Trapperologist]

Transcript of above 2 registers:


Wilson Mary J b 1849 C of E husband Robert, a baker, parish: Everton, admitted: 6th June 1884, discharged: 9th June 1884 R.W. (from Workhouse of Register), found in Netherfield Rd by P.C.388, closest friend and address: Mrs Dixon 201 Peel St, Birkenhead.
Mill Road Hospital, West Derby Union Workhouse

Christina Wilson 4 admitted by JMcGuire, in school, father deserted mother locked up admitted 20 aug 1884 where slept last night: Main Bridewell, recieved relief before-yes
Liverpool Board Of Guardians Workhouse

3rd Register:

Christina Wilson admitted 19 Aug 1884, age 3, admitted from Main Bridewell, mother locked up drunk , brought in by PC148 discharged 20 aug 1884 RHouse (Discharged from the House of Register) Liverpool Board Of Guardians Workhouse
Admissions & Discharges Religious Creed Register



Those are the 3 registers of Mary Jane and Christina Wilson for 1884. Her son Robert Bruce is with her deserted husband Robert. Nothing in 85 and 86 and then nothing but proven crimes against the public record by the grandmother and her sister-in-law who was impersonating her even after everyone agrees MJW was dead.

Her absence from the Liverpool record for 2 years prior to 1884 suggests she was across the river in Birkenhead with her sister where I believe Police Constable George West probably saw her or heard of her and thought she might be MJK based on the "apocryphal" stories of her begging with a child.

[Trapperologist]

Excuse me. Those records were all for 1884. Here's the one from the 6th of June 1884 where she was picked up on Netherfield Road and put in the Infirmary for 3 days. Her closest friend is her sister in Birkenhead rather than her husband.


He's listed as deserted in August when their daughter is taken from the Main Bridewell when Mary gets arrested for drunkenness. That was August 20.

[Trapperologist]

[ATTACH]15931[/ATTACH]

Briggs Haulage Co on Rachel Street, Everton Liverpool

Mary Jane Wilson, maiden name Kelly lived in Everton where she married, had children, living in proximity to her siblings and mother, and her in-laws the Wilsons. She drops out of the known record after 1887.

Roy

The Liverpool Workhouse records were released in the past year so we have more records of Mary Jane Wilson in 1883 - including a record of desertion by her husband, being found in the street and taken to prison, an arrest for drunkeness, and her daughter being moved from prison to the workhouse.

[Trapperologist]

Yes, Sam, I agree it’s a small timeframe. I give her maybe a year in the West End so part of 1885.

That’s why I think she would have to have relatives that were already in those circles. Mary Jane Wilson I found has relatives who went to school with Florence Pash’s brothers. Although the connection might have to be with Sickert if she met him first.

[Sam Flynn]

None of which proves she didn't know Mary Jane Kelly. It doesn't prove she did but I think you'd agree that you have to start someplace.

The earliest place we can start with any certainty is some 4 years before Kelly's death, when she was knocking about down the Ratcliff Highway and later Stepney, when she was in relationships with "Morganstone" and Joseph Fleming, before hooking up with Joe Barnett and eventually moving to Spitalfields.

This doesn't give much time, or "geographical opportunity" (if I can put it that way) for Florence Pash to get to know Mary Kelly - or whatever her real name was - still less keep track of her.