Walter Sickert: Whitechapel Murderer ?

[Graham]

Richard, me old mate,

Sickert was painting scenes of London low-life when he was a young man, well before 1888. He was, as you rightly state, an eccentric, and he said he believed he had once stayed in the same room as the suspect immortalised in The Lodger' hence his painting Jack The Ripper's Bedroom which was, with the best will in the world, a leg-pull. His 'history' as a suspect is entirely down to Stephen Knight, who apparently believed everything he was told by one Joseph Gorman 'Hobo' Sickert, who claimed he was Walter Sickert's illegitimate son and 'knew' what had gone on apropos Prince Eddy, Dr Gull, old Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all. Stephen Knight's book was a good read, but it was fiction, pure and simple. Gorman later admitted that the whole story was made up, a con.

Sickert may well have known Prince Eddy - after all, Sickert was moving in pretty high Society for a time. The whole Sickert theory crashes in flames because he was living in Dieppe during most of 1888, and had Ms Cornwell bothered to recognise this small fact, perhaps she wouldn't have inflicted her bloody book on us. OK, he could well have written a Ripper letter or two, but he wasn't the only one who did so. Ripper Letters were a minor journalistic industry at the time. Jack the Ripper he was not.

Cheers,

Graham

[John Wheat]

So What?

Sickert obviously had an interest in Jack the Ripper and may have written a hoax letter or two and as you say so what? The fact remains there is no actual evidence to connect Sickert to the Ripper crimes and there isn't even any evidence to suggest Sickert was even in Whitechapel during 1888. When looking at Ripper suspects I prefer to look at things like actual evidence.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
So the attitude is , Ok, Sickert might have wrote a letter ot two, but so what , he also had a intrest in the macabre, but so what, he also painted pictures entitled . JTRs bedroom. The passing funeral, and Blackmail, and What shall we do for the rent', but so what, he happens to have a history as a suspect, but so what.
I find that trust in a very eccentric man so praiseworthy.
I am not suggesting that Sickert is a strong contender, but he certainly is no forlorn hope.
I am not talking about everyone that sent a hoax letter, that are unknown to us all, but a suspect that has some credibility.
And incidently the enterprising newsman that may have been responsible for the initial name of Jack the Ripper, how about him in the lists?
Regards Richard.

[Graham]

Maybe Sickert was the Ripper and after the murders painted pictures of
the murdered women by whatever light was available

Flash photography was available in 1888 - he'd have been better off with that, I think...gawd, can you imagine....?

Graham

Hi Michael,

Our posts crossed, but with you all the way.

Best,

Graham

"Great minds....", and "Fools....", and all that... .....nice to see you Graham.

Yep, were on the same page....its nice when it works this way for a change.

Cheers Mate

[Graham]

Hi Michael,

Our posts crossed, but with you all the way.

Best,

Graham

[John Wheat]

Sickert

Maybe Sickert was the Ripper and after the murders painted pictures of
the murdered women by whatever light was available. Wow maybe Cornwell could write another book about this obviously true aspect of the Ripper case. Sickert painting the victims right after he's mutilated them it's bound to be a best seller. As for the hoax letters what about the journalist that started it all off mabye he was there holding Sickerts paints for him. Come on Cornwell get writing the whole Worlds waiting with baited breath.

[Graham]

From what I've read, the police were receiving hoax Ripper letters until the 1930's. I believe the total number ran to several thousand. I'd have to hazard a guess and say that most of them were jokes, and were perceived to be jokes. The police at the time felt that a few - a very few - were serious if not genuine (there's a difference!) and all of this has been debated on this forum for years.

I don't know too much about the Yorkshire Ripper Case, but I think that the audio tape(s) contained information that the police, at the time, felt could be known only to the killer. Hence they were taken seriously. Also, I believe that Sutcliffe was questioned at least once by the investigating team, and released. I also think that the Geordie bloke responsible for the tapes was identified at some point, and brought to book. Maybe someone who knows more about this case than I can correct me.

There are also cases of idiots actually confessing to murder, when they had nothing to do with a particular case - beats me why people would want to do this.

Cheers,

Graham

I have to be totally honest here and admit to not reading Cornwell's book - I started it, but after a couple of chapters I thought it was c-r-a-p. Same goes for the TV 'documentary' she produced. The impression I have is that she tried to bend fact to fit her theory, never a good idea. That Sickert was in France during the late summer/early autumn of 1888 is really beyond doubt, and for Cornwell to say that she couldn't prove he wasn't in France is just nonsensical. The facts very strongly suggest that he was.

Also, although he did express an interest in the Ripper Crimes, he was hugely interested in London low life in general, witness his paintings of music hall scenes and his strange portrayals of working-class people. He painted nude women lying on beds - where else would they lie? - so it was suggested that he based these paintings on the corpse of Mary Jane Kelly which he had somehow seen. Nonsense. He may well have written one or more of the 'Ripper Letters', but he wasn't the only person who faked them. It was quite a cottage industry during the Ripper scare, and for a long time afterwards.

From what I gather he had no legitimate children from his three marriages, but almost certainly produced a few illegitmate ones - Joseph Gorman described himself as one of the latter.

After he retired from the Metropolitain Police, Abberline was for a number of years working as a private detective for Pinkerton's - he may well have tended his garden, but probably only in advanced old age. And it seems that he was never shy about describing his involvement in the Ripper Case.

Cornwell should have stuck to her fiction - mind, Sickert book comes under that heading, as it happens.

Graham

People forget Graham that Ripper letters flowed in by the hundreds each and every week after he had been given his name by one of them. Some also preceded Dear Boss. Ive heard that we have knowledge of around 250 letters that were at one time stored in Ripper files, most only know a handful's contents, yet Ive heard that thousands were sent over time.

Sickert almost certainly will be proven to have written a letter or 2..the hints of DNA found suggest that further testing might prove that. That in and of itself makes him a hoax letter writer....a long way down the list of Dangerous Men at Large, at that time.

Ms Cornwall should not have proceeded with her thinking once she discovered he wasnt even in London for most if not all of the Ripper killings. Just like the Prince. And Ostrog.

Cheers Graham, all the best.

[John Wheat]

So by your reckoning then Richard the journalist who wrote the majority of the hoax Ripper letters should be at the top of the suspects list.

[Limehouse]

Hi,
To suggest Walter Sickert was Jack The Ripper, would seem quite ludricous to most people, and I would agree.
However many Casebook members still suggest, that is was still posssible that this gentleman wrote at least one Ripper letter, and conclude that this means nothing, refering to all of the hoax letters sent.
I for one would not agree with that opinion, one wonders if for instance, if it was proven that such characters as Druitt, Maybrick, Cuthbush, Kosminski, J Barnett, or Fleming, might have wrote a letter, that would have been dismissed as insignificant also.
Walter Sickert is among the countless lists of suspects, and any proven letter writting I feel would place him very near the top of any suspects list.
Regards Richard.

Good point Richard - but keep in mind the prolonged hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper based on the investigating officer's conviction that the person (Geordie) who sent the letter and audio tape was the killer. If he had not been so convinced, Sutcliffe may have been muich higher up the suspect list and may have been apprehended sooner.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
To suggest Walter Sickert was Jack The Ripper, would seem quite ludricous to most people, and I would agree.
However many Casebook members still suggest, that is was still posssible that this gentleman wrote at least one Ripper letter, and conclude that this means nothing, refering to all of the hoax letters sent.
I for one would not agree with that opinion, one wonders if for instance, if it was proven that such characters as Druitt, Maybrick, Cuthbush, Kosminski, J Barnett, or Fleming, might have wrote a letter, that would have been dismissed as insignificant also.
Walter Sickert is among the countless lists of suspects, and any proven letter writting I feel would place him very near the top of any suspects list.
Regards Richard.

[Graham]

I have to be totally honest here and admit to not reading Cornwell's book - I started it, but after a couple of chapters I thought it was c-r-a-p. Same goes for the TV 'documentary' she produced. The impression I have is that she tried to bend fact to fit her theory, never a good idea. That Sickert was in France during the late summer/early autumn of 1888 is really beyond doubt, and for Cornwell to say that she couldn't prove he wasn't in France is just nonsensical. The facts very strongly suggest that he was.

Also, although he did express an interest in the Ripper Crimes, he was hugely interested in London low life in general, witness his paintings of music hall scenes and his strange portrayals of working-class people. He painted nude women lying on beds - where else would they lie? - so it was suggested that he based these paintings on the corpse of Mary Jane Kelly which he had somehow seen. Nonsense. He may well have written one or more of the 'Ripper Letters', but he wasn't the only person who faked them. It was quite a cottage industry during the Ripper scare, and for a long time afterwards.

From what I gather he had no legitimate children from his three marriages, but almost certainly produced a few illegitmate ones - Joseph Gorman described himself as one of the latter.

After he retired from the Metropolitain Police, Abberline was for a number of years working as a private detective for Pinkerton's - he may well have tended his garden, but probably only in advanced old age. And it seems that he was never shy about describing his involvement in the Ripper Case.

Cornwell should have stuck to her fiction - mind, Sickert book comes under that heading, as it happens.

Graham

[Mutt]

Probably Not

Fingering a man for a 121 year old murder minus very clear and definitive evidence is in my opinion not such a good idea. From the other side of the argument, it is also not appropriate to definitively exclude a potential suspect without similarly powerful evidence to the contrary, or a powerful enough lead linking someone else to the crimes. This is especially true if physical evidence surfaces (in this case DNA) linking that individual to an item related to the murders. I would argue that this remains true even if that evidence is tangential to the murders and some circumstantial facts are developed putting the potential killer at different physical locations. I would move Sickert down a sliding scale, not at the bottom, but near enough to honor the exculpatory evidence placing him elsewhere.

[John Wheat]

Yes sorry your right however Cornwell has I would say advanced but regressed the theory over recent years and I assume sales of her other books have benefited from her second rate book about Sickert and that useless DNA test which proved Sickert may have written one of the hoax Ripper letters.