Sickert Was Ripper

[johnnyerwin]

Second, I asked for proof that the other Ripper suspects used the nickname and you gave me none.

I think the problem with your chain of thinking is that is depends on a series of unproven (and weak) theories. Pretty well all of your conclusions have some serious arguments against them.

First of all, it is generally agreed that most (if not all) of the letters are fakes. The "from hell" letter MAY have some chance of being genuine. The telegram you speak of has never been considered as a serious contender for being from the killer. You attempted to compare it to the "from hell" letter in order to qualify it too as being possibly genuine, however one only has to glance briefly at both documents to see that takes a real stretch to conclude that.

Secondly, even if Sickert did write the telegram, what does that prove? Should we then also suspect some of the newspaper folks that were strongly suspected of having written some of the other notes as being Ripper suspects? Even if we accept that Cornwell's mDNA work proves that Sickert wrote that correspondance (which it doesn't) it simply cannot conclude that he did the killings. There is pleny of evidence to suggest that he was not present during any of the killings, and none to suggest that he was present (only conjecture). There's plenty of other reasons why it's difficult to accept him as a serious contender for a suspect if you broaden your reading somewhat.

Lastly, the use of the name "mr nobody" has already been explained as having been common at the time. The fact that someone in a small list of people (the suspects in this case) had used it at one or another proves that. The point that nobody else on the list is known to have used it simply does not prove anything. Again you place all your money on the telegram as being sent by the killer.

I don't know how much time you have invested in ripper research but I suspect you are rather new to serious inquiry on the subject. It's tempting to believe a particular theory or author's work but I would suggest that you should read everything you can get your hands on first before you start forming opinions on who could possibly be a suspect. While not impossible, Sickert being the killer doesn't pass the acid test of critical inquiry for anybody who cares to aquaint themselves with all the material availalble.

Read on!

[Graham]

Was I rude? If so, then, I apologize. If not, then, apology requested.

I wasn't suggesting by any means that you were rude. You are just mistaken, that's all.

The list of adjectives I mentioned I was applying just to myself, to imply that I am rarely any of these things except where Sickert is concerned. They did not apply to you.

Lastly, if you have an open fire where you live, why not light it tomorrow morning with Cornwell's book? Mind, thinking about it, it may be too damp to catch.

Bye-eee.

Graham

[denn034]

Apology Requested

....Oh, and Denn034: if, per your last post, the case is closed, mystery solved, finis, etc., etc., hopefully that's the last we'll ever hear from you. (does the "034" refer to your IQ, by any chance?) I don't often get personal, nasty, rotten, horrid, insulting or sarcastic on these boards, but I do make an exception with anything suggesting that Sickert was the Ripper....Cheers, Graham

Was I rude? If so, then, I apologize. If not, then, apology requested.

[denn034]

Reading Assignment

They do? Gee, I would imagine I would be in pretty good position to know what Ripperology as a field has to say on that topic, and, quite simply, you're just wrong.

Sugden's Complete History of Jack the Ripper and the Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper book say Ripperologists acknowledge, at least, two letters. Period! Perhaps, some reading is in order for you.

[Graham]

This crap makes "On The Trail Of The Forgers" appear to be a work of inspired genius!

Away to Pub Talk with all mention of Sickert who, apart from not being the Ripper, is also one of my favourite artists of the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

Oh, and Denn034: if, per your last post, the case is closed, mystery solved, finis, etc., etc., hopefully that's the last we'll ever hear from you. (does the "034" refer to your IQ, by any chance?)

I don't often get personal, nasty, rotten, horrid, insulting or sarcastic on these boards, but I do make an exception with anything suggesting that Sickert was the Ripper. William Ewart Gladstone is just as likely to have done in the East End whores. Or Sir Arthur Sullivan. Or any other notable Victorian you care to name.

Cheers,

Graham

[Dan Norder]

First, Ripperologists think that the Ripper wrote, at least, two of the Ripper letters.

They do? Gee, I would imagine I would be in pretty good position to know what Ripperology as a field has to say on that topic, and, quite simply, you're just wrong.

But, hey, if having read part of a Patricia Cornwell book and taking it at face value as if it had anything to do with reality has you convinced you know more than everyone else here, it's clear there's no way anyone can talk some sense to you.

[denn034]

Final Word

That would only make the slightest sense if there were any reason to think the Ripper actually wrote the telegram (there isn't) and there were any reason to think that only Sickert would use a nickname like that (there isn't). Both of those fail quite spectacularly. Plus all the evidence that's we have shows that Sickert was in France during September of 1888, which would mean he didn't kill Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes.

First, Ripperologists think that the Ripper wrote, at least, two of the Ripper letters. Compare them to the telegram to see the similarities. Second, I asked for proof that the other Ripper suspects used the nickname and you gave me none. Lastly, Sickert being in France was dealt with already in this thread. Lastly, go to http://www.casebook.org/witnesses and compare those Ripper descriptions to the following two photos of Sickert:
Mystery solved. Case closed. Fini!

[caz]

In this case it appears that Mr Nobody was just the first (and fairly obvious) jokey name to enter the writer's head, so that's what he wrote. Then it struck him that Jack the Ripper would be funnier and topical too, so he struck out Mr Nobody and put that instead.

All very obvious for the time, and no possible clue to either the writer's identity or Jack's.

Love,

Caz
X

[Dan Norder]

Hi Mike,

Exactly. Nobody/Noman/Nemo and variants were widely included in fiction and folklore throughout the world, and people picked it up as an obvious way of cleverly saying they wanted to be anonymous. Even Catherine Eddowes used it when she was arrested Sept. 29th, so it wasn't limited to the upper classes or artists.

[The Good Michael]

Dan,

Also, the popularity of Jules Verne in Europe and in North America at that time, and the mysterious Captain Nemo (no one, or nobody in Latin), made the use of such a pseudonym relatively popular in personal correspondence for a time.

Mike

[Dan Norder]

That would only make the slightest sense if there were any reason to think the Ripper actually wrote the telegram (there isn't) and there were any reason to think that only Sickert would use a nickname like that (there isn't). Both of those fail quite spectacularly.

Plus all the evidence that's we have shows that Sickert was in France during September of 1888, which would mean he didn't kill Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes. If you'd like to dispute that, then you should provide evidence to the contrary. So far the only argument that he wasn't in France is basically that he had to have been the Ripper so he couldn't have been in France. You can't just summarily ignore all the evidence that shows you're wrong and insist that you are right. That's not winning an argument, that's demonstrating an inability to deal with reality.

[denn034]

Telegram Proves Sickert Ripper


Here's the Mr. Nobody Ripper telegram from Cornwell's book that I alluded to. It's been shown that Walter Sickert, during his acting days, did use the Mr. Nobody nickname. Now, I assert that no other Ripper suspect did use it and insist upon proof to the contrary. The fact that Sickert is the only Ripper suspect that used the nickname makes Sickert the only logical candidate for the Ripper. Period!

[Mike Covell]

Sickert signed his name Mr Nobody because he is just that to the case, A Mr Nobody

Mike

[mercurior]

Unfortunatly, the names Mr Nemo, Mr Nobody, were commonly used in that era as a name for anonymous. So to make an analogy with modern films, in Sickert's case it was an Alan Smithee. That is why Captain Nemo is named Nemo.

"Nemo" is Latin for "no one"., if Anyone who used the name Nemo, then could jules verne have been jack the ripper, he used that name in 1870. Even Charles Dickens used the name Nemo in bleak house. So it was Common enough.

[Jdombrowski89]

OK thanks, that was the 'Tiddley Boyar' one of 23rd October 1888 I suppose. I think Ms. Cornwell suggests that it must have been Sickert as he had a stage name of Mr. Nobody. Bit thin I think.

No problem. Yeah that would be it. Well unfortunately that is how Cornwells whole book goes, just because there's mere coincidences there must be a connection, which of course isn't true.

Regards,
Justin