Sickert Was Ripper

[Mike Covell]

Hi HollyDolly,

Have you seen Michael Caine in the Jack the Ripper TV series, which is now available on DVD?

Mansfield has a large role in the production and it's worth watching.

[HollyDolly]

Sickert was Ripper

I had read Cornwell's book awhile back ,but recall few details.
While i am not sure about Sickert as an actor, I don recall reading whether at Crime Library or some where else,the actor Richard Mansfield perhasp being Jack the Ripper. He was a well known American actor of the time,and had apparently been in London on various occasions in plays.I think he was best known for playing Doctor Jekyll and Mr.Hyde.He certainly knew makeup and would have had acess to wigs,false mustaches,etc,all tricks of the trade.
In fact I recall several years back they did a movie with Armand Assante playing Richard Mansfield and going along the line of him being the killer possibly.There would have been no reason to resort to hair dyes on the Ripper's part.

In Jay Robert Nash's book on famous unsolved crimes,his theory was the killer may have been a doctor,probably a married man whose wife left him .
He may have gone to London to try to track her down.

I think he mentions Mansfield as a possible Ripper suspect.
It would be interesting to see if any other Ripper type murders occured in cities where he was playing.
I seem to recall one time when my father mentioned jack the Ripper, he said something about some similar murders in France and elsewhere.
Where he got the information from I don't know,but I was under the impression that he felt like the Ripper was a seaman or ship's doctor,someone who traveled about ,just an ordinary man.
And regardless of Sickert's medical childhood problems, that does not mean he was a killer,as there are other men out there with his type of personality and they don't kill.

[plang]

Make that " Fistula of Dollars" that's what was on the tip of your tongue Mike.

[plang]

Whew! I'm back from ATK. Now about this Sickert buisness.
First, denn034, you are correct in that Patricia Cornwell does offer a compelling theory, but it is not advisable to use any terminology that may suggest 'Case Closed'. As I mentioned before the ' Big Crash' , she has put forth the strongest argument I have yet to hear on JTR's identity. But that is all.
Mike, you coined Fistula Full of Dollars. Brilliant! With all due respect, I think 'Fistula of Dollars' works better. (said in a cowboy slang).
Jdombrowski89, I'll bet you the farm that Cornwell was not in france in 1888! Re: your post #12.
Should send a message to Vincent Bugliosi asking if he will consider reopening the case and writing another book. Can't think of anyone with better credibillity. Of course he is famous for 'Helter Skelter'. He also wrote 'Outrage',
pertaining to the O.J. Simpson case, mainly the incredible incompetance of the prosecuters. ( just for adventure, I drove up Cielo Drive and found the house of the 'Tate' murders', although the number address was not the same as in the book, but it was it with certainty, the driveway, the gate, and all.(1981)
Wonder whatever happened to Patricia Cornwells follow-up book to 'case closed' ? Know for sure I read there was to be one. Long overdue. Anyone

I posted this link on the former 'casebook'. Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkJ8zd6tFNQ

[Celesta]

I notice that no-one's pointed out that Chapman and Kosminski were both hairdressers, and D'onston manufactured cosmetics.

btw, hair dyes in Victorian times were not like the temporary ones of today--once your hair was dyed it stayed dyed.

Hi Mags, I bet this about the hair dye being permanent has squashed many a writer of Victorian mysteries plot layouts.

[steje73]

'Why take 5 women into the shower?'
Why NOT take 5 women into the shower?

[Mike Covell]

I notice that no-one's pointed out that Chapman and Kosminski were both hairdressers, and D'onston manufactured cosmetics.

btw, hair dyes in Victorian times were not like the temporary ones of today--once your hair was dyed it stayed dyed.

"Why take 5 women into the shower, I just slash and go.....

[Magpie]

I notice that no-one's pointed out that Chapman and Kosminski were both hairdressers, and D'onston manufactured cosmetics.

btw, hair dyes in Victorian times were not like the temporary ones of today--once your hair was dyed it stayed dyed.

[Celesta]

D'oh, I have been a little bit dumb. Of course his surgeries must have taken place before 1888. Excuse my correction, now this was faulty logic applied if I ever saw it.

Oh, my goodness! Don't worry about things like that. I knew what you meant.


Have a nice weekend, JS.

C

[JSchmidt]

Yes, this is correct. The reforms in the nursing field began after the Crimean War. I was thinking of Sickert's having been born in the 1860's, at about the time things in the field were beginning to change, but weren't up to good standards yet. The thesis was that he had the surgeries on the fistula at an early age.

Thanks, JS.

D'oh, I have been a little bit dumb. Of course his surgeries must have taken place before 1888. Excuse my correction, now this was faulty logic applied if I ever saw it.

[Celesta]

I feel obliged to correct you a bit on your timeline for the tremendous change of the nursing profession which took place in the 19th century. Both Florence Nightingale and Clara Barton had achieved a measure of reforms by 1888, the pivotal points are the Crimean War of the 1850ies and the American Civil War of the 1860ies.
But you are correct that this change took quite a while and that nurses were not yet particularly wellregarded.
I really wonder what the mindset of a Late Victorian nurse was like. I suspect they would have to be quite practical and often harsh to fulfill their duties. Especially if the staff was really as small as Mrs. Cornwell suggests in her book.
But that tends to drift a bit offtopic.

To contradict Mrs. Cornwells thesis a bit more: If ridicule and gruesome medical examinations would make a killer out of a Victorian, then Joseph Merrick would have been an even more prolific killer than "our" Jack.

Nice to meet you too!

Yes, this is correct. The reforms in the nursing field began after the Crimean War. I was thinking of Sickert's having been born in the 1860's, at about the time things in the field were beginning to change, but weren't up to good standards yet. The thesis was that he had the surgeries on the fistula at an early age.

Thanks, JS.

[JSchmidt]

As for the nurse issue, I have read a series about a nurse, who worked around the time Sickert was born. In that era, as the author presents them, the nurses were not as professional as they became after Florence Nightingale, Clara Barton, and other pioneers. I can easily see them as occasionally drunken and of, what, in those days, was considered to be of a low class. I can't say that is 100% certain, so don't take it as fact. It was the way they were presented by, the author. This is something to research.



JSchmidt, I agree that trauma like this probably doesn't make a person a sociopath or a psychopath. You make some good points. Nice to meet you, by the way.

I feel obliged to correct you a bit on your timeline for the tremendous change of the nursing profession which took place in the 19th century. Both Florence Nightingale and Clara Barton had achieved a measure of reforms by 1888, the pivotal points are the Crimean War of the 1850ies and the American Civil War of the 1860ies.
But you are correct that this change took quite a while and that nurses were not yet particularly wellregarded.
I really wonder what the mindset of a Late Victorian nurse was like. I suspect they would have to be quite practical and often harsh to fulfill their duties. Especially if the staff was really as small as Mrs. Cornwell suggests in her book.
But that tends to drift a bit offtopic.

To contradict Mrs. Cornwells thesis a bit more: If ridicule and gruesome medical examinations would make a killer out of a Victorian, then Joseph Merrick would have been an even more prolific killer than "our" Jack.

Nice to meet you too!

[Celesta]

Hello again,

There is another thing that bothers me about Sickert being JTR. I have the image of JTR as a psychopath...period. Would a psychopath have the discipline it requires to become such an accomplished artist? It takes more than talent to make an artist. A lot of discipline and, if you're the kind of artist I am, a lot of eyestrain, to become so accomplished. I've been reading Hare's & Babiak's book on psychos and, so far, I get the strong impression that psychopaths aren't very disciplined at much of anything but manipulating people. Am I on track here?

Cheers,

C

[Celesta]

Hi Gang,

The fistula! Yes, I have often wondered about that fistula. There are different types of fistulas. Not all are in the male organ. There are anal fistulas, which are---I'm told---extremely painful. Maybe that's the reason his personality was, shall we say, a bit quirky?

As for the nurse issue, I have read a series about a nurse, who worked around the time Sickert was born. In that era, as the author presents them, the nurses were not as professional as they became after Florence Nightingale, Clara Barton, and other pioneers. I can easily see them as occasionally drunken and of, what, in those days, was considered to be of a low class. I can't say that is 100% certain, so don't take it as fact. It was the way they were presented by, the author. This is something to research.

I could see that the experience of having a fistula, or any kind of surgery for that matter, being a very traumatic experience for a child in that time period.

JSchmidt, I agree that trauma like this probably doesn't make a person a sociopath or a psychopath. You make some good points. Nice to meet you, by the way.

Mike, I loved "Fistula Full of Dollars!"

[Mike Covell]

I also laughed at the whole "Fistula full of dollars" episode.
Men can lead a normal life with a fistula, they can have sexual intercourse and can have children.
all she "Proved" is that Sickert may or may not have written/touched/licked a "Ripper" letter, and seeing as there is no proof any of the letters are authentic, she has proved nothing!