Maybrick/Formby Connection?

[GUT]

To believe anything Mike has said about the diary is to have faith. And I can't be doing with faith of that sort.

Faith is one thing but with Mike I am not sure that even faith is enough. He has proven himself to be untrustworthy.

[Scott Nelson]

She looks 25, though.

[GUT]

I believe he was only about my age - 60.

My goodness positively ancient.

[caz]

According to the Maybrick A-Z, Devereux allegedly gave Mike the Diary in mid-1991.

Yes, and 'allegedly' would refer to the fact that this was just one of many other claims made by Mike, which have never been substantiated.

Devereux was housebound with a broken hip so I'm guessing he was aged and on his last legs.

Yes, you're guessing. Devereux's fatal heart attack in August 1991 was quite unexpected according to his family, and I believe he was only about my age - 60. So don't be so cheeky.

Don't you believe a person like Devereux did give it to Mike, if Mike didn't know anything about it and he seemed to have no one to turn to, to get more information? From one 'patsy' to another.

I merely go where the evidence takes me, MayBea. And Mike's "liar liar pants on fire" claims do not amount to evidence in my book.

To believe anything Mike has said about the diary is to have faith. And I can't be doing with faith of that sort.

Love,

Caz
X

[pinkmoon]

Quite simple really Mr Barrett gets his hands on diary to profit from diary he has to have ownership when Tony dies he says Tony gave it him. This can't be proved however it can't be DISPROVED so diary can be published and Mr Barrett can receive his money.When we were told the real story by Mrs Barrett and she adds her seriously ill father into the story then he dies its a case of home and dry and good bye police.

[MayBea]

Hang on. Mike claimed to know Devereux before he was sick. He died in 1991, yet Mike's first known mention of the diary was not until 1992, when he claimed that Devereux had given it to him...We simply don't know how well she knew Devereux, if at all.

According to the Maybrick A-Z, Devereux allegedly gave Mike the Diary in mid-1991.

Devereux was housebound with a broken hip so I'm guessing he was aged and on his last legs. If Anne knew of him, he'd be the perfect person/harmless 'patsy' to give the Diary to, to pass on to Mike.

Don't you believe a person like Devereux did give it to Mike, if Mike didn't know anything about it and he seemed to have no one to turn to, to get more information? From one 'patsy' to another.

[caz]

I don't think it very unreasonable or highly incredible at all that the Graham's were related to Florrie and then, later on, married into friends of one of her servants. Servant/'master' links live on.

Hi MayBea,

Knowing all the blood, sweat and tears Feldy expended on trying - in vain - to prove some family link back to the Maybricks, I strongly doubt there was ever a provable link to be discovered.

There is still no rationale for Anne's claims other than trying to protect Michael or telling the truth. Her word is supported by the fact that her husband had the Diary and she knew Devereaux.

It is only a fact that Mike had the diary, not that Anne ever knew Tony Devereux. With a young daughter and a job, I'm not at all sure she'd have drunk in the Saddle with Mike, for example, or visited Tony in his nearby home. She may have known of him, as one of Mike's acquaintances, but there is no evidence for her having met him. Mike himself appeared sceptical that she had ever been inside his house.

It's unfortunate Devereaux died but the Barretts knew him because he was sick. Who else could Anne have given it to?

Hang on. Mike claimed to know Devereux before he was sick. He died in 1991, yet Mike's first known mention of the diary was not until 1992, when he claimed that Devereux had given it to him. Anne's claim to have given it to Devereux did not come for another two years and it took Mike completely by surprise. We simply don't know how well she knew Devereux, if at all.

Whether or not her claim was true (and whether or not she knew or suspected where the diary had really come from) it served as damage limitation in the wake of Mike's forgery claim, and fitted in with his original Devereux story. And so it became a case of which story to believe: one featuring the late Tony Devereux; one featuring Mike as a modern hoax conspirator, if not master forger - or one that has yet to be told.

Love,

Caz
X

[MayBea]

And of course Anne's story, featuring the alleged Formby/Yapp connection, was totally at odds with Feldy's theoretical Maybrick/Graham blood tie.

I don't think it very unreasonable or highly incredible at all that the Graham's were related to Florrie and then, later on, married into friends of one of her servants. Servant/'master' links live on.

There is still no rationale for Anne's claims other than trying to protect Michael or telling the truth. Her word is supported by the fact that her husband had the Diary and she knew Devereaux.

It's unfortunate Devereaux died but the Barretts knew him because he was sick. Who else could Anne have given it to?

[caz]

We still have to ask ourselves why Anne would insinuate her family into the Diary debate and then object to a familial connection to the Maybricks.

Indeed, MayBea.

I'm not ready to conclude she was aiding and abetting a crime by covering up for her husband, who, by all accounts, didn't know where Devereaux got the thing and wouldn't be culpable.

What sort of 'crime' did you have in mind? Wasn't Paul Dodd quite happy to take a cut and leave it there if Mike had agreed and gone along with Feldy's original Battlecrease theory? But Mike simply wouldn't hear of sharing the glory of his 'find' with anyone.

And there is no evidence beyond Mike and Anne's unsupported word that the (conveniently?) late Tony Devereux had ever known the diary existed.

Love,

Caz
X

[pinkmoon]

Hi Pinky,

But why would Mike have known anything about a supposed connection between his wife and the diary? Before publication, his story was that he got it from Devereux without knowing where it came from, while Anne claimed to know nothing at all. When she eventually claimed a family connection and said she gave it to Devereux and swore him to silence, Mike was clearly gobsmacked. But was his reaction one of simple disbelief? Or was it one of anger and frustration because he knew damn well it wasn't true but couldn't admit how he knew?

The diary was always Mike's baby. If Feldy was threatening to take the glory away from him, using the electricians, or Paul Dodd, or Anne, Mike's reaction was extreme but perhaps understandable. Claiming to have written it himself was, for a man on the edge, as good a way as he could think of - possibly the only way he could think of - to retain centre stage and his 'rights' over the diary.

Love,

Caz
X

My dear caz,I think I know how Mr Barrett obtained the diary like I said before I have no proof just a gut feeling when I spoke to him so I do not buy the Tony story or mrs Barrett s story .

[MayBea]

We still have to ask ourselves why Anne would insinuate her family into the Diary debate and then object to a familial connection to the Maybricks.

I'm not ready to conclude she was aiding and abetting a crime by covering up for her husband, who, by all accounts, didn't know where Devereaux got the thing and wouldn't be culpable.

[caz]

Hi caz,surely to God Mr Barrett must have known that when he had that diary published that the truth about his wife's connection would come out that's assuming the last version of the truth told by Mrs Barrett was indeed the truth.I never believed her story about having the diary in her possession for years and doing nothing with it.

Hi Pinky,

But why would Mike have known anything about a supposed connection between his wife and the diary? Before publication, his story was that he got it from Devereux without knowing where it came from, while Anne claimed to know nothing at all. When she eventually claimed a family connection and said she gave it to Devereux and swore him to silence, Mike was clearly gobsmacked. But was his reaction one of simple disbelief? Or was it one of anger and frustration because he knew damn well it wasn't true but couldn't admit how he knew?

The diary was always Mike's baby. If Feldy was threatening to take the glory away from him, using the electricians, or Paul Dodd, or Anne, Mike's reaction was extreme but perhaps understandable. Claiming to have written it himself was, for a man on the edge, as good a way as he could think of - possibly the only way he could think of - to retain centre stage and his 'rights' over the diary.

Love,

Caz
X

[pinkmoon]

Hi MayBea,

You have hit one nail on the head here. Both Anne and Mike naturally resisted all Feldman's efforts to prove one of them (and therefore their daughter Caroline) was descended from James Maybrick a.k.a Jack the Ripper. Mike was beside himself and so determined to stop Feldy convincing the world of any such relationship that he called time on him by claiming he faked the diary himself.

And of course Anne's story, featuring the alleged Formby/Yapp connection, was totally at odds with Feldy's theoretical Maybrick/Graham blood tie. The best Feldy could do with the combined accounts of Mike, Anne and her father, was to shift his focus onto Florence, and theorise that Anne had descended from her, but not from the ripper himself. I assume he hoped to demonstrate that Anne had somehow inherited James's 'confession' from Florie.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi caz,surely to God Mr Barrett must have known that when he had that diary published that the truth about his wife's connection would come out that's assuming the last version of the truth told by Mrs Barrett was indeed the truth.I never believed her story about having the diary in her possession for years and doing nothing with it.

[caz]

I would agree if the subject of the Diary wasn't Jack the Ripper and the characters involved would be admitting they were related, even if it's only by marriage, to probably the most notorious killer of all time.

There are people that would find that unsavory, and Anne Graham seems to me to be exactly that type.

Hi MayBea,

You have hit one nail on the head here. Both Anne and Mike naturally resisted all Feldman's efforts to prove one of them (and therefore their daughter Caroline) was descended from James Maybrick a.k.a Jack the Ripper. Mike was beside himself and so determined to stop Feldy convincing the world of any such relationship that he called time on him by claiming he faked the diary himself.

And of course Anne's story, featuring the alleged Formby/Yapp connection, was totally at odds with Feldy's theoretical Maybrick/Graham blood tie. The best Feldy could do with the combined accounts of Mike, Anne and her father, was to shift his focus onto Florence, and theorise that Anne had descended from her, but not from the ripper himself. I assume he hoped to demonstrate that Anne had somehow inherited James's 'confession' from Florie.

Love,

Caz
X

[GUT]

G'day Maybea

Thanks I'd never seen that before.