Maybrick/Formby Connection?

[pinkmoon]

I find it hard to believe that the worker found an 11 x 8 1/2 inch diary in a cookie tin. Although there are large ones that would just barely accommodate a journal of that size, most tins don't fit that dimension.

I'm more apt to believe that the Diary was the back end of one of the three Florence Maybrick Diaries despite their being described as "small volumes". What is a "small" volume in Victorian times when Dickens was around?

I think the theory of the diary been taken from battlecrease without the owners consent is the most logical solution this would also explain the central characters involved telling a lot of lies then again once the whole situation got so out of hand and a lot of money was generated and then the police came sniffing I think the central characters had no choice but to lie.

[Livia]

Biscuit tins, some as large as 16 1/2" x 11 1/2" are
currently for sale on Ebay, scores of them. You
can see many examples by using google images,
searching on "large biscuit tins". Some of them
are in the shape of large books.

Alice Murrin died 3rd quarter of 1953 aged 92 in Surrey,
as you noted earlier.

You seem determined to believe the Graham provenance,
even when it's been demonstrated that the dates don't
fit, and there's documented evidence to the contrary.

I'll leave you to it.

[MayBea]

What documented evidence, Livia? The proof of provenance that's being held back?

I think the theory of the diary been taken from battlecrease without the owners consent is the most logical solution this would also explain the central characters involved telling a lot of lies ...

I would agree if the subject of the Diary wasn't Jack the Ripper and the characters involved would be admitting they were related, even if it's only by marriage, to probably the most notorious killer of all time.

There are people that would find that unsavory, and Anne Graham seems to me to be exactly that type.

P.S. The date that Billy Graham says he saw it--in 1943--fits nicely with Florence Maybrick's death in 1941. She could still be the grandmother that Edith was talking about.

[MayBea]

In 1910, Florie should be staying at the Moraine Hotel in
Highland Park, Illinois, but I've just gone through
all three districts and she's not there. She doesn't
seem to be anywhere in the States for the 1910 census.

The census was compiled in those districts on May 9th. The
Baroness was buried on April 12th, so it is possible that
Florie had traveled to Europe during this time.
QUOTE Livia jtrforums

If the Baroness had the Diary, then Florrie could have gotten it from her when she died in Paris in 1910. Then she passed through Liverpool on the way back to America and gave it to William Graham, Billy's father, as per Billy's sister Alice's claims she saw Florrie when she paid a visit around 1910-11.

[GUT]

G'day MayBea

But why would the Baroness have the diary in about 1910?

[MayBea]

The Baroness wrote a letter about her attempt to get a hold of some missing books which she says would have cleared up some mysteries...If one of them was the Diary, could she not have gotten a hold of it in 1889 and had it in 1910 when she died?

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...891123.2.58.24

She denied they were diaries but perhaps they were used as photo albums.

The rumors about the "diaries" came out of London, according to her. Wasn't Yapp there by that time?

[pinkmoon]

The Baroness wrote a letter about her attempt to get a hold of some missing books which she says would have cleared up some mysteries...If one of them was the Diary, could she not have gotten a hold of it in 1889 and had it in 1910 when she died?

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...891123.2.58.24

She denied they were diaries but perhaps they were used as photo albums.

The rumors about the "diaries" came out of London, according to her. Wasn't Yapp there by that time?

Afternoon,The missing pages could be very important to clear up the mystery of the diary why remove them?I have little doubt that the diary was removed from battlecrease shortly before it was launched onto the general public in what condition and what it contained when it was removed from battlecrease I do not know.

[MayBea]

Afternoon,The missing pages could be very important to clear up the mystery of the diary why remove them?...

If it was one of the volumes of Florence Maybrick's 'diaries', she, or someone else, could have removed her pages of written entries or pictures and then given the book away with the missing pages.

That's the only explanation I can think of if the diary is genuine.

[GUT]

G'day Maybea

Thanks I'd never seen that before.

[caz]

I would agree if the subject of the Diary wasn't Jack the Ripper and the characters involved would be admitting they were related, even if it's only by marriage, to probably the most notorious killer of all time.

There are people that would find that unsavory, and Anne Graham seems to me to be exactly that type.

Hi MayBea,

You have hit one nail on the head here. Both Anne and Mike naturally resisted all Feldman's efforts to prove one of them (and therefore their daughter Caroline) was descended from James Maybrick a.k.a Jack the Ripper. Mike was beside himself and so determined to stop Feldy convincing the world of any such relationship that he called time on him by claiming he faked the diary himself.

And of course Anne's story, featuring the alleged Formby/Yapp connection, was totally at odds with Feldy's theoretical Maybrick/Graham blood tie. The best Feldy could do with the combined accounts of Mike, Anne and her father, was to shift his focus onto Florence, and theorise that Anne had descended from her, but not from the ripper himself. I assume he hoped to demonstrate that Anne had somehow inherited James's 'confession' from Florie.

Love,

Caz
X

[pinkmoon]

Hi MayBea,

You have hit one nail on the head here. Both Anne and Mike naturally resisted all Feldman's efforts to prove one of them (and therefore their daughter Caroline) was descended from James Maybrick a.k.a Jack the Ripper. Mike was beside himself and so determined to stop Feldy convincing the world of any such relationship that he called time on him by claiming he faked the diary himself.

And of course Anne's story, featuring the alleged Formby/Yapp connection, was totally at odds with Feldy's theoretical Maybrick/Graham blood tie. The best Feldy could do with the combined accounts of Mike, Anne and her father, was to shift his focus onto Florence, and theorise that Anne had descended from her, but not from the ripper himself. I assume he hoped to demonstrate that Anne had somehow inherited James's 'confession' from Florie.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi caz,surely to God Mr Barrett must have known that when he had that diary published that the truth about his wife's connection would come out that's assuming the last version of the truth told by Mrs Barrett was indeed the truth.I never believed her story about having the diary in her possession for years and doing nothing with it.

[caz]

Hi caz,surely to God Mr Barrett must have known that when he had that diary published that the truth about his wife's connection would come out that's assuming the last version of the truth told by Mrs Barrett was indeed the truth.I never believed her story about having the diary in her possession for years and doing nothing with it.

Hi Pinky,

But why would Mike have known anything about a supposed connection between his wife and the diary? Before publication, his story was that he got it from Devereux without knowing where it came from, while Anne claimed to know nothing at all. When she eventually claimed a family connection and said she gave it to Devereux and swore him to silence, Mike was clearly gobsmacked. But was his reaction one of simple disbelief? Or was it one of anger and frustration because he knew damn well it wasn't true but couldn't admit how he knew?

The diary was always Mike's baby. If Feldy was threatening to take the glory away from him, using the electricians, or Paul Dodd, or Anne, Mike's reaction was extreme but perhaps understandable. Claiming to have written it himself was, for a man on the edge, as good a way as he could think of - possibly the only way he could think of - to retain centre stage and his 'rights' over the diary.

Love,

Caz
X

[MayBea]

We still have to ask ourselves why Anne would insinuate her family into the Diary debate and then object to a familial connection to the Maybricks.

I'm not ready to conclude she was aiding and abetting a crime by covering up for her husband, who, by all accounts, didn't know where Devereaux got the thing and wouldn't be culpable.

[pinkmoon]

Hi Pinky,

But why would Mike have known anything about a supposed connection between his wife and the diary? Before publication, his story was that he got it from Devereux without knowing where it came from, while Anne claimed to know nothing at all. When she eventually claimed a family connection and said she gave it to Devereux and swore him to silence, Mike was clearly gobsmacked. But was his reaction one of simple disbelief? Or was it one of anger and frustration because he knew damn well it wasn't true but couldn't admit how he knew?

The diary was always Mike's baby. If Feldy was threatening to take the glory away from him, using the electricians, or Paul Dodd, or Anne, Mike's reaction was extreme but perhaps understandable. Claiming to have written it himself was, for a man on the edge, as good a way as he could think of - possibly the only way he could think of - to retain centre stage and his 'rights' over the diary.

Love,

Caz
X

My dear caz,I think I know how Mr Barrett obtained the diary like I said before I have no proof just a gut feeling when I spoke to him so I do not buy the Tony story or mrs Barrett s story .

[caz]

We still have to ask ourselves why Anne would insinuate her family into the Diary debate and then object to a familial connection to the Maybricks.

Indeed, MayBea.

I'm not ready to conclude she was aiding and abetting a crime by covering up for her husband, who, by all accounts, didn't know where Devereaux got the thing and wouldn't be culpable.

What sort of 'crime' did you have in mind? Wasn't Paul Dodd quite happy to take a cut and leave it there if Mike had agreed and gone along with Feldy's original Battlecrease theory? But Mike simply wouldn't hear of sharing the glory of his 'find' with anyone.

And there is no evidence beyond Mike and Anne's unsupported word that the (conveniently?) late Tony Devereux had ever known the diary existed.

Love,

Caz
X