New Book: The Maybrick Murder and the Diary of Jack the Ripper

[erobitha]

1] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 1993, Smith Gryphon
[2] Jack the Ripper: The Final Chapter (hardback), Paul Feldman, 1998, Virgin
[3] Jack the Ripper: The American Connection (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 2003, Blake Publishing Limited
[4] Ripper Diary: The Inside Story (hardback), Seth Linder, Caroline Morris, & Keith Skinner, 2003, Sutton Publishing Limited
[5] The Maybrick A to Z, Christopher Jones, 2008, Countyvise Limited
[6] The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, Philip Sugden, 2006, Robinson Publishing Ltd.
[7] Mapping Murder: The Secrets of Geographical Profiling, David Canter, 2007, Virgin Books
[8] 25 Years of the Diary of Jack the Ripper: The True Facts,Robert Smith, 2017, Mango Books
[15] This Friendless Lady, Nigel Morland, 1957, Frederick Muller Ltd
[18] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (paperback), Shirley Harrison, 1998, Blake Publishing
[19] The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick, Bernard Ryan, 1977, Penguin Books
[23] Etched in Arsenic, Trevor Christie, 1969, George G. Harrap & Co. Ltd
[25] The Last Victim: The extraordinary life of Florence Maybrick, the wife of Jack the Ripper, Anne E. Graham & Carol Emmas, 1999, Headline Book Publishing
[27] They All Love Jack: Busting the Ripper, Bruce Robinson, 2015, HarperCollns
[31] Jack the Ripper: The Definitive Casebook, Richard Whittington-Egan, 2018, Amberely Publishing
[34] Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper Case Closed, Patricia Cornwell, 2002, Time Warner Paperbacks
[39] Mrs. Maybrick’s Own Story: My Fifteen Lost Years, Florence Maybrick, 1905, Funk & Wagnalls Company [Reprinted 2017, The Echo Library]
[41] Time Reveals All: The “Funny Little Games” of Jack the Ripper, SC Davies, 2019, [Self-Published – ISBN: 9781093937336]
[44] The True History of the Diary of Jack the Ripper,Robert Smith, 2019, Mango Books


Or in his mind Losmandris just thought he would save himself the trouble and time .

I would hazzard a guess not one of these book proves beyond a doubt that Maybrick was Jack the Ripper . No more than Druitt or Lechmere, so in the end all he has is just like the rest of us . Opinion, Speculation , Conjecture, Interpretation of evidence and Guesswork when it come to ones preferred suspect .

Because that was the point of the books was it? Clearly you haven’t read them if that’s what you thought they were trying to demonstrate. As ill informed as apparently I am, I have read most of those and I don’t believe any of them categorically claimed he did it outright.

The closest claim is that he might possibly have written it. Now I’ve saved you both the time and trouble.

[Iconoclast]

I would hazzard a guess not one of these book proves beyond a doubt that Maybrick was Jack the Ripper . No more than Druitt or Lechmere, so in the end all he has is just like the rest of us . Opinion, Speculation , Conjecture, Interpretation of evidence and Guesswork when it come to ones preferred suspect .

I beg to differ, and beg most loudly. You cannot say, which you seem to be implying, that all pigs are equal here. You cannot say, "Your candidate has not been proven unequivocally, therefore he is as likely or unlikely as any other". That's not how evidence weighs on the scales. Maybrick - in terms of evidence - is so far out in front of the second-most-likely candidate for Jack the Ripper that you'd be excused for thinking they weren't actually taking part in the same race. Neither can you simply list a load of qualities and thereby imply they too have equal weight in any argument: Opinion, speculation, conjecture, and guesswork you can throw away as worthless stocking fillers on Christmas morning - we resort to these when we don't have the fifth quality you cited, evidence. Maybrick is off the scale on evidence - both hard facts and circumstantial. The rest of the 200 candidates are just news you read on a bang-average day - **** all content but the best there is that day.

And - for the record - asking people what their views are on a candidate they've almost all read almost nothing about is never going to produce anything other than a sense of what the mood music is around here. Indeed, I think that was what ero b was seeking to achieve, perhaps not realising that people would read the results as some sort of testimony in favour or against. It's very much like those Tories who today voted personality-explant Liz Truss in as party leader and therefore as prime minister. Come 2024, she and her government will face the British electorate and they like Rishi more than they like Truss so - if they had one eye on getting re-elected - today's vote may not have been as utilitarian as it could have been for them. Big mistake, big mistake (thank you, Julia Roberts' character).

Don't make the big mistakes, dear readers. The Good News today is that I am here to keep you all honest.

Honestly.

Ike

[rjpalmer]

Those trying to convince the world of a Barrett hoax have done just as poor a job as those presenting it as a Maybrick authorship in terms of what would stand up in a court of law as conclusive proof.

And you know this...how?

There is no 'court of law' to decide such things and never will be, so all we have is the court of public opinion.

And your own poll suggests that your arguments have been far from persuasive.






27 of the respondents believe (correctly) that the diary is a modern fake, with the majority of them suspecting Bongo Barrett and friends.

Only 3 respondents believe it to be genuine, and since Ike admitted to being one of them, his arguments and your own have convinced exactly two people unless the other two be "Soothsayer" and "Tom Mitchell" or "Erobitha," which seems at least possible.

By contrast, the arguments set out by Melvin Harris, Nick Warren, Martin Fido, Kenneth Rendell, Maurice Chittenden, Joe Nickell, Dr. David Baxendale, David Barratt, and others seem to have been far more persuasive. A poll conducted some years ago was even more lopsided, if I recall.

You might be better off forgetting about courts of law, or 'the court of history' as Keith Skinner calls it, or the court of public opinion, and instead concentrate on being a modern-day Galileo, battling for an unpopular truth among a rabble of ignorant and prejudiced minds.

[FISHY1118]

Eloquently put. Thank you.

[Losmandris]

I on the other hand have read many books either entirely or partly discussing the Maybrick case (many more than once) - off the top of my head (actually, out of the back of my brilliant Society's Pillar):

[1] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 1993, Smith Gryphon
[2] Jack the Ripper: The Final Chapter (hardback), Paul Feldman, 1998, Virgin
[3] Jack the Ripper: The American Connection (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 2003, Blake Publishing Limited
[4] Ripper Diary: The Inside Story (hardback), Seth Linder, Caroline Morris, & Keith Skinner, 2003, Sutton Publishing Limited
[5] The Maybrick A to Z, Christopher Jones, 2008, Countyvise Limited
[6] The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, Philip Sugden, 2006, Robinson Publishing Ltd.
[7] Mapping Murder: The Secrets of Geographical Profiling, David Canter, 2007, Virgin Books
[8] 25 Years of the Diary of Jack the Ripper: The True Facts,Robert Smith, 2017, Mango Books
[15] This Friendless Lady, Nigel Morland, 1957, Frederick Muller Ltd
[18] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (paperback), Shirley Harrison, 1998, Blake Publishing
[19] The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick, Bernard Ryan, 1977, Penguin Books
[23] Etched in Arsenic, Trevor Christie, 1969, George G. Harrap & Co. Ltd
[25] The Last Victim: The extraordinary life of Florence Maybrick, the wife of Jack the Ripper, Anne E. Graham & Carol Emmas, 1999, Headline Book Publishing
[27] They All Love Jack: Busting the Ripper, Bruce Robinson, 2015, HarperCollns
[31] Jack the Ripper: The Definitive Casebook, Richard Whittington-Egan, 2018, Amberely Publishing
[34] Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper Case Closed, Patricia Cornwell, 2002, Time Warner Paperbacks
[39] Mrs. Maybrick’s Own Story: My Fifteen Lost Years, Florence Maybrick, 1905, Funk & Wagnalls Company [Reprinted 2017, The Echo Library]
[41] Time Reveals All: The “Funny Little Games” of Jack the Ripper, SC Davies, 2019, [Self-Published – ISBN: 9781093937336]
[44] The True History of the Diary of Jack the Ripper,Robert Smith, 2019, Mango Books

If I had simply done what you did (picked a particularly prosaic section and claimed it was overly puerile) then I too could have concluded that the scrapbook was an obvious fake. Instead, I read everything I could find on Maybrick (except - of course - Lord Orsam's response to my brilliant Society's Pillar, naturally) and formed a broader opinion based on as much information as I could find.

Buttering me up with shite about passion and enthusiasm means **** all to me in my defence of the scrapbook's right for its voice to be heard. It's a bit like when the old blokes at the walking football tell me they admire my passion and enthusiasm (I kid ye not, their very words) - doesn't stop me taking the bastards' legs out if they try to go past me. If you're too old to fall down you shouldn't be on the pitch. That's my motto. Surprisingly apposite, I feel.

PS I admired your honesty, though.

Ike

No buttering up intended here. Again calling it as I see it. You do appear to have a lot of passion and enthusiasm that is admirable. Alas neither can turn fantasy into reality.

[Losmandris]

Herein is the problem in a nutshell. Some of us are accused of being ill informed, yet most people have adopted the attitude “it must be a fake” with little to no investigation themselves.

”I have all I need”. As does Chris Jones apparently.

Just calling it how I see it. If I was shown the same paragraph with no context I would said exactly the same thing.

[Losmandris]

1] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 1993, Smith Gryphon
[2] Jack the Ripper: The Final Chapter (hardback), Paul Feldman, 1998, Virgin
[3] Jack the Ripper: The American Connection (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 2003, Blake Publishing Limited
[4] Ripper Diary: The Inside Story (hardback), Seth Linder, Caroline Morris, & Keith Skinner, 2003, Sutton Publishing Limited
[5] The Maybrick A to Z, Christopher Jones, 2008, Countyvise Limited
[6] The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, Philip Sugden, 2006, Robinson Publishing Ltd.
[7] Mapping Murder: The Secrets of Geographical Profiling, David Canter, 2007, Virgin Books
[8] 25 Years of the Diary of Jack the Ripper: The True Facts,Robert Smith, 2017, Mango Books
[15] This Friendless Lady, Nigel Morland, 1957, Frederick Muller Ltd
[18] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (paperback), Shirley Harrison, 1998, Blake Publishing
[19] The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick, Bernard Ryan, 1977, Penguin Books
[23] Etched in Arsenic, Trevor Christie, 1969, George G. Harrap & Co. Ltd
[25] The Last Victim: The extraordinary life of Florence Maybrick, the wife of Jack the Ripper, Anne E. Graham & Carol Emmas, 1999, Headline Book Publishing
[27] They All Love Jack: Busting the Ripper, Bruce Robinson, 2015, HarperCollns
[31] Jack the Ripper: The Definitive Casebook, Richard Whittington-Egan, 2018, Amberely Publishing
[34] Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper Case Closed, Patricia Cornwell, 2002, Time Warner Paperbacks
[39] Mrs. Maybrick’s Own Story: My Fifteen Lost Years, Florence Maybrick, 1905, Funk & Wagnalls Company [Reprinted 2017, The Echo Library]
[41] Time Reveals All: The “Funny Little Games” of Jack the Ripper, SC Davies, 2019, [Self-Published – ISBN: 9781093937336]
[44] The True History of the Diary of Jack the Ripper,Robert Smith, 2019, Mango Books


Or in his mind Losmandris just thought he would save himself the trouble and time .

I would hazzard a guess not one of these book proves beyond a doubt that Maybrick was Jack the Ripper . No more than Druitt or Lechmere, so in the end all he has is just like the rest of us . Opinion, Speculation , Conjecture, Interpretation of evidence and Guesswork when it come to ones preferred suspect .

Eloquently put. Thank you.

[FISHY1118]

1] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 1993, Smith Gryphon
[2] Jack the Ripper: The Final Chapter (hardback), Paul Feldman, 1998, Virgin
[3] Jack the Ripper: The American Connection (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 2003, Blake Publishing Limited
[4] Ripper Diary: The Inside Story (hardback), Seth Linder, Caroline Morris, & Keith Skinner, 2003, Sutton Publishing Limited
[5] The Maybrick A to Z, Christopher Jones, 2008, Countyvise Limited
[6] The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, Philip Sugden, 2006, Robinson Publishing Ltd.
[7] Mapping Murder: The Secrets of Geographical Profiling, David Canter, 2007, Virgin Books
[8] 25 Years of the Diary of Jack the Ripper: The True Facts,Robert Smith, 2017, Mango Books
[15] This Friendless Lady, Nigel Morland, 1957, Frederick Muller Ltd
[18] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (paperback), Shirley Harrison, 1998, Blake Publishing
[19] The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick, Bernard Ryan, 1977, Penguin Books
[23] Etched in Arsenic, Trevor Christie, 1969, George G. Harrap & Co. Ltd
[25] The Last Victim: The extraordinary life of Florence Maybrick, the wife of Jack the Ripper, Anne E. Graham & Carol Emmas, 1999, Headline Book Publishing
[27] They All Love Jack: Busting the Ripper, Bruce Robinson, 2015, HarperCollns
[31] Jack the Ripper: The Definitive Casebook, Richard Whittington-Egan, 2018, Amberely Publishing
[34] Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper Case Closed, Patricia Cornwell, 2002, Time Warner Paperbacks
[39] Mrs. Maybrick’s Own Story: My Fifteen Lost Years, Florence Maybrick, 1905, Funk & Wagnalls Company [Reprinted 2017, The Echo Library]
[41] Time Reveals All: The “Funny Little Games” of Jack the Ripper, SC Davies, 2019, [Self-Published – ISBN: 9781093937336]
[44] The True History of the Diary of Jack the Ripper,Robert Smith, 2019, Mango Books


Or in his mind Losmandris just thought he would save himself the trouble and time .

I would hazzard a guess not one of these book proves beyond a doubt that Maybrick was Jack the Ripper . No more than Druitt or Lechmere, so in the end all he has is just like the rest of us . Opinion, Speculation , Conjecture, Interpretation of evidence and Guesswork when it come to ones preferred suspect .

[Iconoclast]

Herein is the problem in a nutshell. Some of us are accused of being ill informed, yet most people have adopted the attitude “it must be a fake” with little to no investigation themselves.

”I have all I need”. As does Chris Jones apparently.

I must take lessons from you, ero b ...

[Iconoclast]

Not many. I don't think I need to if that paragraph was anything to go on. It has fake written all over it, forget about all the other evidence! I think I will pass. Don't get me wrong though, I love your passion and enthusiasm, it is great. We just may have to diverge on opinions. Indeed it would be amazing if it was the genuine article and I mean that! But I just really cannot see it, I am afraid.

I on the other hand have read many books either entirely or partly discussing the Maybrick case (many more than once) - off the top of my head (actually, out of the back of my brilliant Society's Pillar):

[1] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 1993, Smith Gryphon
[2] Jack the Ripper: The Final Chapter (hardback), Paul Feldman, 1998, Virgin
[3] Jack the Ripper: The American Connection (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 2003, Blake Publishing Limited
[4] Ripper Diary: The Inside Story (hardback), Seth Linder, Caroline Morris, & Keith Skinner, 2003, Sutton Publishing Limited
[5] The Maybrick A to Z, Christopher Jones, 2008, Countyvise Limited
[6] The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, Philip Sugden, 2006, Robinson Publishing Ltd.
[7] Mapping Murder: The Secrets of Geographical Profiling, David Canter, 2007, Virgin Books
[8] 25 Years of the Diary of Jack the Ripper: The True Facts,Robert Smith, 2017, Mango Books
[15] This Friendless Lady, Nigel Morland, 1957, Frederick Muller Ltd
[18] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (paperback), Shirley Harrison, 1998, Blake Publishing
[19] The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick, Bernard Ryan, 1977, Penguin Books
[23] Etched in Arsenic, Trevor Christie, 1969, George G. Harrap & Co. Ltd
[25] The Last Victim: The extraordinary life of Florence Maybrick, the wife of Jack the Ripper, Anne E. Graham & Carol Emmas, 1999, Headline Book Publishing
[27] They All Love Jack: Busting the Ripper, Bruce Robinson, 2015, HarperCollns
[31] Jack the Ripper: The Definitive Casebook, Richard Whittington-Egan, 2018, Amberely Publishing
[34] Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper Case Closed, Patricia Cornwell, 2002, Time Warner Paperbacks
[39] Mrs. Maybrick’s Own Story: My Fifteen Lost Years, Florence Maybrick, 1905, Funk & Wagnalls Company [Reprinted 2017, The Echo Library]
[41] Time Reveals All: The “Funny Little Games” of Jack the Ripper, SC Davies, 2019, [Self-Published – ISBN: 9781093937336]
[44] The True History of the Diary of Jack the Ripper,Robert Smith, 2019, Mango Books

If I had simply done what you did (picked a particularly prosaic section and claimed it was overly puerile) then I too could have concluded that the scrapbook was an obvious fake. Instead, I read everything I could find on Maybrick (except - of course - Lord Orsam's response to my brilliant Society's Pillar, naturally) and formed a broader opinion based on as much information as I could find.

Buttering me up with shite about passion and enthusiasm means **** all to me in my defence of the scrapbook's right for its voice to be heard. It's a bit like when the old blokes at the walking football tell me they admire my passion and enthusiasm (I kid ye not, their very words) - doesn't stop me taking the bastards' legs out if they try to go past me. If you're too old to fall down you shouldn't be on the pitch. That's my motto. Surprisingly apposite, I feel.

PS I admired your honesty, though.

Ike

[erobitha]

It has fake written all over it, forget about all the other evidence! I think I will pass.

Herein is the problem in a nutshell. Some of us are accused of being ill informed, yet most people have adopted the attitude “it must be a fake” with little to no investigation themselves.

”I have all I need”. As does Chris Jones apparently.

[Losmandris]

Purely as a matter of interest, how many 'Maybrick Diary' books have you read?

Just asking for a friend ...

Not many. I don't think I need to if that paragraph was anything to go on. It has fake written all over it, forget about all the other evidence! I think I will pass. Don't get me wrong though, I love your passion and enthusiasm, it is great. We just may have to diverge on opinions. Indeed it would be amazing if it was the genuine article and I mean that! But I just really cannot see it, I am afraid.

[Iconoclast]

Ero B's logic was not backed up by any evidence. Barrett may have been an unreliable, lying bastard but he still wrote the Diary. Surely it's up to others to decide how good your book is? Proclaiming it brilliant does you no favours

Everyone agrees it's brilliant, though that wouldn't have mattered to me. Some things are just obvious. Michael Barrett creating the Victorian scrapbook is not one of them.

PS Did you know that Barrett also created the scratches in the back of the watch in 1990 using meths, matches, and Brasso, and that he paid a mate £150 to pawn it at a jewellers (I need to check if it's even possible that it was the correct one) so that Albert Johnson could come along and buy it two years later? It was that simple, apparently.

[John Wheat]

Sadly, your "I don't agree with any of this" comes with no supporting evidence as to why ero b's logic is faulty, whereas ego b's logic is backed-up by the available evidence although he freely (and correctly) admits that it is not necessarily conclusive (obviously, if it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion).

My brilliant Society's Pillar 2025 which may or may not become available in 2025 will clarify - I suspect - once and for all that Michael Barrett was an unreliable, lying bastard.

Like we didn't already know!

Ike

Ero B's logic was not backed up by any evidence. Barrett may have been an unreliable, lying bastard but he still wrote the Diary. Surely it's up to others to decide how good your book is? Proclaiming it brilliant does you no favours

[Iconoclast]

I don't agree with any of this.

Sadly, your "I don't agree with any of this" comes with no supporting evidence as to why ero b's logic is faulty, whereas ego b's logic is backed-up by the available evidence although he freely (and correctly) admits that it is not necessarily conclusive (obviously, if it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion).

My brilliant Society's Pillar 2025 which may or may not become available in 2025 will clarify - I suspect - once and for all that Michael Barrett was an unreliable, lying bastard.

Like we didn't already know!

Ike