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New Book: The Maybrick Murder and the Diary of Jack the Ripper

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  • FISHY1118
    replied
    Originally posted by Losmandris View Post

    Eloquently put. Thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Losmandris
    replied
    Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post

    I on the other hand have read many books either entirely or partly discussing the Maybrick case (many more than once) - off the top of my head (actually, out of the back of my brilliant Society's Pillar):

    [1] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 1993, Smith Gryphon
    [2] Jack the Ripper: The Final Chapter (hardback), Paul Feldman, 1998, Virgin
    [3] Jack the Ripper: The American Connection (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 2003, Blake Publishing Limited
    [4] Ripper Diary: The Inside Story (hardback), Seth Linder, Caroline Morris, & Keith Skinner, 2003, Sutton Publishing Limited
    [5] The Maybrick A to Z, Christopher Jones, 2008, Countyvise Limited
    [6] The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, Philip Sugden, 2006, Robinson Publishing Ltd.
    [7] Mapping Murder: The Secrets of Geographical Profiling, David Canter, 2007, Virgin Books
    [8] 25 Years of the Diary of Jack the Ripper: The True Facts,Robert Smith, 2017, Mango Books
    [15] This Friendless Lady, Nigel Morland, 1957, Frederick Muller Ltd
    [18] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (paperback), Shirley Harrison, 1998, Blake Publishing
    [19] The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick, Bernard Ryan, 1977, Penguin Books
    [23] Etched in Arsenic, Trevor Christie, 1969, George G. Harrap & Co. Ltd
    [25] The Last Victim: The extraordinary life of Florence Maybrick, the wife of Jack the Ripper, Anne E. Graham & Carol Emmas, 1999, Headline Book Publishing
    [27] They All Love Jack: Busting the Ripper, Bruce Robinson, 2015, HarperCollns
    [31] Jack the Ripper: The Definitive Casebook, Richard Whittington-Egan, 2018, Amberely Publishing
    [34] Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper Case Closed, Patricia Cornwell, 2002, Time Warner Paperbacks
    [39] Mrs. Maybrick’s Own Story: My Fifteen Lost Years, Florence Maybrick, 1905, Funk & Wagnalls Company [Reprinted 2017, The Echo Library]
    [41] Time Reveals All: The “Funny Little Games” of Jack the Ripper, SC Davies, 2019, [Self-Published – ISBN: 9781093937336]
    [44] The True History of the Diary of Jack the Ripper,Robert Smith, 2019, Mango Books

    If I had simply done what you did (picked a particularly prosaic section and claimed it was overly puerile) then I too could have concluded that the scrapbook was an obvious fake. Instead, I read everything I could find on Maybrick (except - of course - Lord Orsam's response to my brilliant Society's Pillar, naturally) and formed a broader opinion based on as much information as I could find.

    Buttering me up with shite about passion and enthusiasm means **** all to me in my defence of the scrapbook's right for its voice to be heard. It's a bit like when the old blokes at the walking football tell me they admire my passion and enthusiasm (I kid ye not, their very words) - doesn't stop me taking the bastards' legs out if they try to go past me. If you're too old to fall down you shouldn't be on the pitch. That's my motto. Surprisingly apposite, I feel.

    PS I admired your honesty, though.

    Ike
    No buttering up intended here. Again calling it as I see it. You do appear to have a lot of passion and enthusiasm that is admirable. Alas neither can turn fantasy into reality.

    Leave a comment:


  • Losmandris
    replied
    Originally posted by erobitha View Post

    Herein is the problem in a nutshell. Some of us are accused of being ill informed, yet most people have adopted the attitude “it must be a fake” with little to no investigation themselves.

    ”I have all I need”. As does Chris Jones apparently.
    Just calling it how I see it. If I was shown the same paragraph with no context I would said exactly the same thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Losmandris
    replied
    Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
    1] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 1993, Smith Gryphon
    [2] Jack the Ripper: The Final Chapter (hardback), Paul Feldman, 1998, Virgin
    [3] Jack the Ripper: The American Connection (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 2003, Blake Publishing Limited
    [4] Ripper Diary: The Inside Story (hardback), Seth Linder, Caroline Morris, & Keith Skinner, 2003, Sutton Publishing Limited
    [5] The Maybrick A to Z, Christopher Jones, 2008, Countyvise Limited
    [6] The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, Philip Sugden, 2006, Robinson Publishing Ltd.
    [7] Mapping Murder: The Secrets of Geographical Profiling, David Canter, 2007, Virgin Books
    [8] 25 Years of the Diary of Jack the Ripper: The True Facts,Robert Smith, 2017, Mango Books
    [15] This Friendless Lady, Nigel Morland, 1957, Frederick Muller Ltd
    [18] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (paperback), Shirley Harrison, 1998, Blake Publishing
    [19] The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick, Bernard Ryan, 1977, Penguin Books
    [23] Etched in Arsenic, Trevor Christie, 1969, George G. Harrap & Co. Ltd
    [25] The Last Victim: The extraordinary life of Florence Maybrick, the wife of Jack the Ripper, Anne E. Graham & Carol Emmas, 1999, Headline Book Publishing
    [27] They All Love Jack: Busting the Ripper, Bruce Robinson, 2015, HarperCollns
    [31] Jack the Ripper: The Definitive Casebook, Richard Whittington-Egan, 2018, Amberely Publishing
    [34] Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper Case Closed, Patricia Cornwell, 2002, Time Warner Paperbacks
    [39] Mrs. Maybrick’s Own Story: My Fifteen Lost Years, Florence Maybrick, 1905, Funk & Wagnalls Company [Reprinted 2017, The Echo Library]
    [41] Time Reveals All: The “Funny Little Games” of Jack the Ripper, SC Davies, 2019, [Self-Published – ISBN: 9781093937336]
    [44] The True History of the Diary of Jack the Ripper,Robert Smith, 2019, Mango Books


    Or in his mind Losmandris just thought he would save himself the trouble and time .

    I would hazzard a guess not one of these book proves beyond a doubt that Maybrick was Jack the Ripper . No more than Druitt or Lechmere, so in the end all he has is just like the rest of us . Opinion, Speculation , Conjecture, Interpretation of evidence and Guesswork when it come to ones preferred suspect .
    Eloquently put. Thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • FISHY1118
    replied
    1] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 1993, Smith Gryphon
    [2] Jack the Ripper: The Final Chapter (hardback), Paul Feldman, 1998, Virgin
    [3] Jack the Ripper: The American Connection (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 2003, Blake Publishing Limited
    [4] Ripper Diary: The Inside Story (hardback), Seth Linder, Caroline Morris, & Keith Skinner, 2003, Sutton Publishing Limited
    [5] The Maybrick A to Z, Christopher Jones, 2008, Countyvise Limited
    [6] The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, Philip Sugden, 2006, Robinson Publishing Ltd.
    [7] Mapping Murder: The Secrets of Geographical Profiling, David Canter, 2007, Virgin Books
    [8] 25 Years of the Diary of Jack the Ripper: The True Facts,Robert Smith, 2017, Mango Books
    [15] This Friendless Lady, Nigel Morland, 1957, Frederick Muller Ltd
    [18] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (paperback), Shirley Harrison, 1998, Blake Publishing
    [19] The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick, Bernard Ryan, 1977, Penguin Books
    [23] Etched in Arsenic, Trevor Christie, 1969, George G. Harrap & Co. Ltd
    [25] The Last Victim: The extraordinary life of Florence Maybrick, the wife of Jack the Ripper, Anne E. Graham & Carol Emmas, 1999, Headline Book Publishing
    [27] They All Love Jack: Busting the Ripper, Bruce Robinson, 2015, HarperCollns
    [31] Jack the Ripper: The Definitive Casebook, Richard Whittington-Egan, 2018, Amberely Publishing
    [34] Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper Case Closed, Patricia Cornwell, 2002, Time Warner Paperbacks
    [39] Mrs. Maybrick’s Own Story: My Fifteen Lost Years, Florence Maybrick, 1905, Funk & Wagnalls Company [Reprinted 2017, The Echo Library]
    [41] Time Reveals All: The “Funny Little Games” of Jack the Ripper, SC Davies, 2019, [Self-Published – ISBN: 9781093937336]
    [44] The True History of the Diary of Jack the Ripper,Robert Smith, 2019, Mango Books


    Or in his mind Losmandris just thought he would save himself the trouble and time .

    I would hazzard a guess not one of these book proves beyond a doubt that Maybrick was Jack the Ripper . No more than Druitt or Lechmere, so in the end all he has is just like the rest of us . Opinion, Speculation , Conjecture, Interpretation of evidence and Guesswork when it come to ones preferred suspect .

    Leave a comment:


  • Iconoclast
    replied
    Originally posted by erobitha View Post

    Herein is the problem in a nutshell. Some of us are accused of being ill informed, yet most people have adopted the attitude “it must be a fake” with little to no investigation themselves.

    ”I have all I need”. As does Chris Jones apparently.
    I must take lessons from you, ero b ...

    Leave a comment:


  • Iconoclast
    replied
    Originally posted by Losmandris View Post

    Not many. I don't think I need to if that paragraph was anything to go on. It has fake written all over it, forget about all the other evidence! I think I will pass. Don't get me wrong though, I love your passion and enthusiasm, it is great. We just may have to diverge on opinions. Indeed it would be amazing if it was the genuine article and I mean that! But I just really cannot see it, I am afraid.
    I on the other hand have read many books either entirely or partly discussing the Maybrick case (many more than once) - off the top of my head (actually, out of the back of my brilliant Society's Pillar):

    [1] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 1993, Smith Gryphon
    [2] Jack the Ripper: The Final Chapter (hardback), Paul Feldman, 1998, Virgin
    [3] Jack the Ripper: The American Connection (hardback), Shirley Harrison, 2003, Blake Publishing Limited
    [4] Ripper Diary: The Inside Story (hardback), Seth Linder, Caroline Morris, & Keith Skinner, 2003, Sutton Publishing Limited
    [5] The Maybrick A to Z, Christopher Jones, 2008, Countyvise Limited
    [6] The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, Philip Sugden, 2006, Robinson Publishing Ltd.
    [7] Mapping Murder: The Secrets of Geographical Profiling, David Canter, 2007, Virgin Books
    [8] 25 Years of the Diary of Jack the Ripper: The True Facts,Robert Smith, 2017, Mango Books
    [15] This Friendless Lady, Nigel Morland, 1957, Frederick Muller Ltd
    [18] The Diary of Jack the Ripper (paperback), Shirley Harrison, 1998, Blake Publishing
    [19] The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick, Bernard Ryan, 1977, Penguin Books
    [23] Etched in Arsenic, Trevor Christie, 1969, George G. Harrap & Co. Ltd
    [25] The Last Victim: The extraordinary life of Florence Maybrick, the wife of Jack the Ripper, Anne E. Graham & Carol Emmas, 1999, Headline Book Publishing
    [27] They All Love Jack: Busting the Ripper, Bruce Robinson, 2015, HarperCollns
    [31] Jack the Ripper: The Definitive Casebook, Richard Whittington-Egan, 2018, Amberely Publishing
    [34] Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper Case Closed, Patricia Cornwell, 2002, Time Warner Paperbacks
    [39] Mrs. Maybrick’s Own Story: My Fifteen Lost Years, Florence Maybrick, 1905, Funk & Wagnalls Company [Reprinted 2017, The Echo Library]
    [41] Time Reveals All: The “Funny Little Games” of Jack the Ripper, SC Davies, 2019, [Self-Published – ISBN: 9781093937336]
    [44] The True History of the Diary of Jack the Ripper,Robert Smith, 2019, Mango Books

    If I had simply done what you did (picked a particularly prosaic section and claimed it was overly puerile) then I too could have concluded that the scrapbook was an obvious fake. Instead, I read everything I could find on Maybrick (except - of course - Lord Orsam's response to my brilliant Society's Pillar, naturally) and formed a broader opinion based on as much information as I could find.

    Buttering me up with shite about passion and enthusiasm means **** all to me in my defence of the scrapbook's right for its voice to be heard. It's a bit like when the old blokes at the walking football tell me they admire my passion and enthusiasm (I kid ye not, their very words) - doesn't stop me taking the bastards' legs out if they try to go past me. If you're too old to fall down you shouldn't be on the pitch. That's my motto. Surprisingly apposite, I feel.

    PS I admired your honesty, though.

    Ike

    Leave a comment:


  • erobitha
    replied
    Originally posted by Losmandris View Post

    It has fake written all over it, forget about all the other evidence! I think I will pass.
    Herein is the problem in a nutshell. Some of us are accused of being ill informed, yet most people have adopted the attitude “it must be a fake” with little to no investigation themselves.

    ”I have all I need”. As does Chris Jones apparently.

    Leave a comment:


  • Losmandris
    replied
    Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post

    Purely as a matter of interest, how many 'Maybrick Diary' books have you read?

    Just asking for a friend ...
    Not many. I don't think I need to if that paragraph was anything to go on. It has fake written all over it, forget about all the other evidence! I think I will pass. Don't get me wrong though, I love your passion and enthusiasm, it is great. We just may have to diverge on opinions. Indeed it would be amazing if it was the genuine article and I mean that! But I just really cannot see it, I am afraid.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iconoclast
    replied
    Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

    Ero B's logic was not backed up by any evidence. Barrett may have been an unreliable, lying bastard but he still wrote the Diary. Surely it's up to others to decide how good your book is? Proclaiming it brilliant does you no favours
    Everyone agrees it's brilliant, though that wouldn't have mattered to me. Some things are just obvious. Michael Barrett creating the Victorian scrapbook is not one of them.

    PS Did you know that Barrett also created the scratches in the back of the watch in 1990 using meths, matches, and Brasso, and that he paid a mate 150 to pawn it at a jewellers (I need to check if it's even possible that it was the correct one) so that Albert Johnson could come along and buy it two years later? It was that simple, apparently.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Wheat
    replied
    Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post

    Sadly, your "I don't agree with any of this" comes with no supporting evidence as to why ero b's logic is faulty, whereas ego b's logic is backed-up by the available evidence although he freely (and correctly) admits that it is not necessarily conclusive (obviously, if it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion).

    My brilliant Society's Pillar 2025 which may or may not become available in 2025 will clarify - I suspect - once and for all that Michael Barrett was an unreliable, lying bastard.

    Like we didn't already know!

    Ike
    Ero B's logic was not backed up by any evidence. Barrett may have been an unreliable, lying bastard but he still wrote the Diary. Surely it's up to others to decide how good your book is? Proclaiming it brilliant does you no favours

    Leave a comment:


  • Iconoclast
    replied
    Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

    I don't agree with any of this.
    Sadly, your "I don't agree with any of this" comes with no supporting evidence as to why ero b's logic is faulty, whereas ego b's logic is backed-up by the available evidence although he freely (and correctly) admits that it is not necessarily conclusive (obviously, if it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion).

    My brilliant Society's Pillar 2025 which may or may not become available in 2025 will clarify - I suspect - once and for all that Michael Barrett was an unreliable, lying bastard.

    Like we didn't already know!

    Ike

    Leave a comment:


  • John Wheat
    replied
    Originally posted by erobitha View Post

    Cop out argument in my view.

    There is no absence of proof for any of the candidates, even Mike Barrett. The issue is the proof presented is not conclusive. Those trying to convince the world of a Barrett hoax have done just as poor a job as those presenting it as a Maybrick authorship in terms of what would stand up in a court of law as conclusive proof. So the responsibility should be on the collective to make it conclusive one way or another.

    People are entitled to opinions and theories but saying "it smells like a hoax so it must be a hoax" is rather poor. Let's prove it conclusively by finding out who wrote it really and why. It may not be what it purports to be, but why it came to be and who wrote it could yet still be quite important.

    I believe the diary was written to support the watch. So I believe JM was JTR. If my theory is right, then it means the diary is a hoax and Maybrick is JTR. How does one go about proving that theory John without at least understanding who wrote the diary and why?

    I am also open-minded to the small possibility it could be genuine. I am open to the idea that both items are hoaxes, but yet the arguments have not been conclusive, In fact, with the watch, the science dates the scratches of some age and it remains in the family that bought it.

    I am only asking John.
    I don't agree with any of this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iconoclast
    replied
    What he said, everyone.

    Except the bit where the scrapbook is written to support the watch. Although the watch has the Maybrick signature which makes it very powerful evidence, the scrapbook stands alone as it has the 'FM' which the author of the scrapbook knew had been left in Miller's Court.

    To the likes of John Wheat, I would say that ero b has put it so much kinder and more eloquently than I ever would.

    And, please, everyone, let's not have to keep saying this over and over and over again: the burden of proof sits with anyone making a claim about anything. If you make a claim about the price of fish on Shetland this morning, you have acquired a burden of proof to support it.

    PS None of this will get Newcastle their two points back from Saturday's travesty at home to Palace (even when the PGMOL apologise later today to us and Wet Spam fans), nor the three points we lost at Anfield because Isak was given offside by an atom (the Septic Six must never have a key decision go against them!). There are many more examples, but these were the worst and the most costly. You would think VAR's role is to make football as scoreless and boring as possible.

    Ike
    Last edited by Iconoclast; 09-05-2022, 08:20 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • erobitha
    replied
    Originally posted by erobitha View Post

    Cop out argument in my view.

    There is no absence of proof for any of the candidates, even Mike Barrett. The issue is the proof presented is not conclusive. Those trying to convince the world of a Barrett hoax have done just as poor a job as those presenting it as a Maybrick authorship in terms of what would stand up in a court of law as conclusive proof. So the responsibility should be on the collective to make it conclusive one way or another.

    People are entitled to opinions and theories but saying "it smells like a hoax so it must be a hoax" is rather poor. Let's prove it conclusively by finding out who wrote it really and why. It may not be what it purports to be, but why it came to be and who wrote it could yet still be quite important.

    I believe the diary was written to support the watch. So I believe JM was JTR. If my theory is right, then it means the diary is a hoax and Maybrick is JTR. How does one go about proving that theory John without at least understanding who wrote the diary and why?

    I am also open-minded to the small possibility it could be genuine. I am open to the idea that both items are hoaxes, but yet the arguments have not been conclusive, In fact, with the watch, the science dates the scratches of some age and it remains in the family that bought it.

    I am only asking John.
    Let me just add to this. I know it must be tempting and tantalising to those pushing a modern Mike Barrett hoax theory to go with it as it is a closure to the diary (of sorts).

    Mike offered a nice way out to those who ever had any doubts to close their minds for good, and most took it. They needed not much more than a broken man who spent the last years of his life drunk and bitter, but what he said was not the truth. Even those like Chris Jones must know that.

    To those who don't believe a word Mike said (or at least very unconvinced) in those years are still left trying to understand how this thing come to be.

    The watch is an inconvenience to all of it.
    Last edited by erobitha; 09-05-2022, 06:17 AM.

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