Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Maybrick & Syphillis

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Maybrick & Syphillis

    I read recently an ex poster of this forum on his own personal website (pretty sure you can guess who) had made reference to my speculation that I believed Maybrick himself had syphillis as mere speculation. I can confirm he is indeed correct, it is mere speculation.

    I believe and speculate with no scientific proof, like 99.9% of ripperology, that James Maybrick suffered from a form of syphilis I believe to be 'Neurosyhphilis'. Only a modern forensice evalualtion of his skull would show such signs. I would have no issue with an exhumation to see obviously, but as I am the speculator and not a distant relative or local why would I?

    What is Eningovascular Syphilis? Well, plainly speaking it is part of neurosysphilis which is syphillis of the brain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosyphilis

    This particaulr element of the illness was striking to me in the sense of the symptoms:
    - Inflamation of the central nervous system (Maybrick had trouble with his 'nerves')
    - Ischemia which restricts oxygen to blood supply in areas of the body such as hands and feet which make them feel cold and numb. It has the 6 p's which include pain, pallor, pulseless, paresthesia, paralysis, and poikilothermia
    - The middle cereberal artery is mainly affected
    - Eventually this leads to Parenchymal Syphilis such as temprature sensation and deep joint pain, usually many years after initial infection
    - Manic episodes that lead to frenzy bouts of rage and anger

    Syphillis is a broad and complex illness and not all symptoms show such as rotting of the skin. Some present with more insidiuos symptoms that are less outwardly obvious. Many doctors prescribed hard metals drugs for dealing with a whole range of diseases back then. Mercury was the preferred option for syphillis initially, then quinine and in some cases arsenic. This concotion also happened to be similar to the one given to James whilst in America for 'malaria' which apears on his medical record. A respectable doctor is unlikely to put syphillis down on a genleman's medical record now is he? Ironically for a period of time later malaria itself was often used to combat syphillis quite effectively one might add, but this was about 30-40 years later.

    We know James frequented brothels whilst in America and we know how you get syphillis. Could his anger at whores come from this time and what he suffered as a result of their hands (or genitals I should say)?

    The introduction of anti-biotics in the early 20th century brought the illness well under control.

    As I say, this is nothing but pure speculation.
    Last edited by erobitha; 05-12-2020, 09:41 AM.

  • #2
    Pure speculation it may be, Erobitha, but a fascinating theory.

    Graham
    We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by erobitha View Post
      I would have no issue with an exhumation to see obviously, but as I am the speculator and not a distant relative or local why would I?
      Who would pay for the exhumation?

      Comment


      • #4
        But do we know of any serial killers who did not have syphilis but were still serial killers just the same? Conversely, are there individuals who have syphilis but are not serial killers?

        Yes, it is an interesting theory but it needs to be looked at in perspective.

        c.d.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by erobitha View Post
          We know James frequented brothels whilst in America and we know how you get syphillis. Could his anger at whores come from this time and what he suffered as a result of their hands (or genitals I should say)?

          As I say, this is nothing but pure speculation.
          Why the need for speculation? Doesn't the diary give Maybrick's motivation?

          Comment


          • #6
            He doesn't seem to have passed it onto his wife

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post

              Who would pay for the exhumation?
              There would also be the costs of the forensic testing. Not to mention all types of legal wrangling in doing so too, so I guess lawyers need their palms crossed with silver as well.

              The liklihood of that happening is zero. Some bloke on a forum's hunch is not enough to convince anyone to bank roll it, let alone execute it.

              Then what? Let's say he had it, and my hunch struck lucky. It only proves he had something many men of the era also suffered with and doesn't tie him directly to the murders. None the less, it gives motive a bit more credibility.

              Comment


              • #8
                American Doctors had free reign on writing what they felt was ethical on medical records around the time James was diagnosed with 'Malaria'.

                A History of American Medical Ethics

                Writing in 1882, medical doctor Daniel W. Cathell explained the importance of medical ethics to physicians as follows:

                It is your duty to familiarize yourself with the Code of Ethics at the very threshold of your professional career, and never to violate either its letter or spirit. . . . [I]t is founded upon the broad basis of equal rights and equal privileges to every member of the profession, and stands like a lighthouse to all who wish to sail an honorable course. This code of ethics is the oracle to which you can resort and learn what things justice allows and what it prohibits; and it is to a very great extent these lofty ethics that elevate the medical profession in our land so far above common avocations.[6]

                Dr. Thomas Percival proposed the first code of ethics in 1807, and numerous state medical societies were quick to adopt some form of ethical guidelines. With only minor changes, the code was adopted in its entirety by the AMA at its first meeting in 1847, and local medical groups seeking representation in the AMA had to require that their members follow this code.

                By the 1880s, however, it became obvious that this code was outdated. In fact, four states had adopted codes different from that of the AMA, and two more states ignored the idea of codes and focused on lobbying for laws to govern medical practice. Further, only 20 percent of medical professionals had even accepted the code by becoming members of their local medical societies. Many societies had even been accepting members practicing sectarian medicine or members who engaged in consultations, both of which were explicitly banned in the code. “It thus happened that the Code of Ethics, in its attempted application to diverse conditions, physical, educational, political, social, and professional, became in many instances a most unethical document”.[7]

                --- snip ---

                First, the diagnosis of syphilis could often be difficult, especially since there was frequently a long period of latency. In all situations, the carefulness of doctors in making diagnoses was critical, for one did not want to mistakenly diagnose with syphilis a patient who did not actually have the disease, nor did one want to find the patient to be healthy when he had actually contracted syphilis. Since a misdiagnosis of syphilis brought great mental suffering to the patient, the physician’s duty to be skillful and attentive to his patients took on an added significance.

                Further, it was not always clear if a doctor should even tell a patient that he had syphilis. In 1882, Cathell admonished fellow physicians

                Even when you are positive that a person has syphilis, it is not always best to say so. Prudence will sometimes require you to reserve your opinion, but at the same time give the proper medicine. Indeed, in practising medicine, you will see and understand many sins and blemishes of which you must appear oblivious.[14]


                Source: http://www.essaysinhistory.com/syphi...edical-ethics/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Observer View Post
                  He doesn't seem to have passed it onto his wife
                  Most likely he was in the Latent to Third Stage by then. According the Mayo Clinic:

                  Latent syphilis

                  If you aren't treated for syphilis, the disease moves from the secondary stage to the hidden (latent) stage, when you have no symptoms. The latent stage can last for years. Signs and symptoms may never return, or the disease may progress to the third (tertiary) stage.

                  ---snip---

                  Syphilis is contagious during its primary and secondary stages, and sometimes in the early latent period.


                  Source: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20351756

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

                    Why the need for speculation? Doesn't the diary give Maybrick's motivation?
                    Glad you asked. Yes and no. His mental state at that time was not great. My guess is his syphillis symptoms were showing some signs of return and being in the third stage and hence him upping the ante on his medicine. But doing so he is also increasing his risk of delerious rage and paranoia. The immediate object of his anger in the diary would suggest Florence is the main protagionist and acted as a trigger. Whilst she is the focus of his anger in the diary it is plausible that he sees her now as one of those whores as part of the collective of whores - sluts who did him wrong and what better way to manifest his anger on her and 'her kind' is to kill those wretched street whores no-one will miss. It's a whole world of psychotic cartharsis rolled into one muddled ball of frenzied anger. Florie was just the excuse he needed. I would even be as bold to suggest that as a result of the symptoms returning Maybrick may even have assumed she cheated on him and thats how he "got it again" even though it was third stage coming and through sheer paranoia he blamed her. She most certainly did however cheat on him later we know. She was, or the perception of what she was, was the ideal trigger.
                    Last edited by erobitha; 05-13-2020, 10:58 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                      But do we know of any serial killers who did not have syphilis but were still serial killers just the same? Conversely, are there individuals who have syphilis but are not serial killers?

                      Yes, it is an interesting theory but it needs to be looked at in perspective.

                      c.d.
                      Motive comes in various forms. As does method. Not all serial killers who kill prositutues are motivated by the same thing and neither do they kill in the same way. I'm not sure I get your point. In the specific case of James Maybrick, this woulld add weight to the motivation as to why he did do what he did (if he did). Hence the speculation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by erobitha View Post

                        Motive comes in various forms. As does method. Not all serial killers who kill prositutues are motivated by the same thing and neither do they kill in the same way. I'm not sure I get your point. In the specific case of James Maybrick, this woulld add weight to the motivation as to why he did do what he did (if he did). Hence the speculation.
                        Hello Erobitha,

                        Yes, I understand that it could have been a motivating factor. I was simply cautioning against using it as a smoking gun.

                        c.d.

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X