The Diary—Old Hoax or New?

[Iconoclast]

Crikey von smikey - I am exhausted merely by the effort of scrolling down what I can only describe as a jolly old 'volley' of retorts from He Who Must Not Be Named (Lord Orsam, obviously - aaargh, the thunder bolts!).

Iconoclast
Jouneyman Genius

The good Lord Orsam will be spitting feathers in his Chigwell semi at my ridiculous mix-up regarding bolts. Clearly they are the harbingers of lightning rather than thunder. Tee hee.

Ike

[Iconoclast]

(im also kind of a fan of you too Icon : ) )
for different reasons lol, but nonetheless admirable!

Honestly, everyone, please keep the compliments coming, even if they are not 100% tried and tested for sincerity content. Tee hee. I'll happily take 'em all.

Icon
A Bit Like That Rocky Statue in Philly Only Without the Hat

[Iconoclast]

"Originally posted by Eliza
My hypothesis is not that Barrett was a “brilliant master forger.” If you review my previous posts, I suggest that certain genuine materials from the Maybrick home—letters, perhaps, or scraps of a journal—found their way to Barrett and possibly unnamed cohorts. I think these materials formed the basis for the forgery, with various JTR elements clumsily inserted here and there. This would explain Mike and Ann’s repeated lies and general incoherence about the provenance of the Diary. They may have been protecting their sources (workmen at Battlecrease?) from accusations of theft."

The Bottom Line -
It is hard to believe and rather ridiculous that any Master Forger/Amateur Forger or even a Nest of Forgers would in their right mind, in choosing their fall guy as Jack the Ripper, choose a suspect living over 200 miles out of Whitechapel.

That is surely a non-starter, or should be.

But strangely as it happens, it isn't. This is either by chance or there are no Forgers at all.

Spider, you old arachnoid and simultaneous voice of reason, you are quite right. In all honesty, the Barrett-as-Forger argument is a lame duck that is far from a vet's place of employment. Every time I wake up screaming in the middle of the night and it's not caused by the realisation that I may have to be a Newcastle fan for life, it's inevitably out of The Terror that Lord Snake-Hips Orsam (forgive me for even suggesting it) may be right. Thankfully, all I have to do is go online and remind myself that he actually believes that it is possible that an illiterate ex-scrap metal dealer with no previous record of master-forgery could have created the Victorian scrapbook. The relief which pours over me washes away the sweat and the fear (assuming, of course, that slumber didn't have me double-dipping into some dystopian nightmare where a leeching slug had buried itself deep into the epidermis of my beloved football club).

I'm with you, you eight-legged wunderkind!

Iconoclast
A Raccoon by Any Other Name

[Iconoclast]

me too! have you checked out his latest?

Crikey von smikey - I am exhausted merely by the effort of scrolling down what I can only describe as a jolly old 'volley' of retorts from He Who Must Not Be Named (Lord Orsam, obviously - aaargh, the thunder bolts!).

I am very disappointed to note that he does not yet appear to have a blog dedicated to my own great wit and wisdom. Lord, he could call it The Great Wit and Wisdom of Iconoclast, for Heaven's sake - there you are, I've even given him his title!

Anyway, just in case you (AN), my adoring readers, my positively demanding fans, my detractors, my confidantes, and the Master of Disaster himself, HWMNBN (Lord Orsam - aaargh!) are wondering, I'll be back. Just been a little busy analysing the cast-off wool which seems unerringly to accumulate within the Holy Chalice of my naval.

PS I would also appreciate a much shorter blog from the MoD explaining why he resorts to smoke and mirrors with those ridiculously short line lengths on his website. Hey - Lordsy - I can see through your scam, mate. Short lines, long blogs, makes you look more erudite than the average Chigwell semi-owner, whilst totally destroying the rubber on my scroll wheel. No wonder they fear to speak your name on All Hallow's Evening!

Iconoclast
Jouneyman Genius

[Spider]

"Originally posted by Eliza
My hypothesis is not that Barrett was a “brilliant master forger.” If you review my previous posts, I suggest that certain genuine materials from the Maybrick home—letters, perhaps, or scraps of a journal—found their way to Barrett and possibly unnamed cohorts. I think these materials formed the basis for the forgery, with various JTR elements clumsily inserted here and there. This would explain Mike and Ann’s repeated lies and general incoherence about the provenance of the Diary. They may have been protecting their sources (workmen at Battlecrease?) from accusations of theft."

The Bottom Line -
It is hard to believe and rather ridiculous that any Master Forger/Amateur Forger or even a Nest of Forgers would in their right mind, in choosing their fall guy as Jack the Ripper, choose a suspect living over 200 miles out of Whitechapel.

That is surely a non-starter, or should be.

But strangely as it happens, it isn't. This is either by chance or there are no Forgers at all.

[Abby Normal]

Personally, I'm a huge fan ...

me too! have you checked out his latest?

(im also kind of a fan of you too Icon : ) )
for different reasons lol, but nonetheless admirable!

[Iconoclast]

My hypothesis is not that Barrett was a “brilliant master forger.” If you review my previous posts, I suggest that certain genuine materials from the Maybrick home—letters, perhaps, or scraps of a journal—found their way to Barrett and possibly unnamed cohorts. I think these materials formed the basis for the forgery, with various JTR elements clumsily inserted here and there. This would explain Mike and Ann’s repeated lies and general incoherence about the provenance of the Diary. They may have been protecting their sources (workmen at Battlecrease?) from accusations of theft.

These are all worthy and interesting thoughts, Eliza. I suspect that the latter case was not what actually happened, but I can't prove it so your suggestion should be added to the pantheon of Barrett-musings.

All good.

[Eliza]

[QUOTE=Iconoclast;n718991]

Hi Eliza,

Your long post reply to Caz is very revealing. I would estimate that you are in your early 20s, right? I say this because of your extraordinary use of the term 'Age of Ancestry.com' for the year 1992. To be specific, you couldn't have used Ancestry.com in Liverpool until around 1997, but - to be general - even then you'd have had to wait for the common application of the internet which probably wasn't available for most people until a few years after that. I vaguely recall getting my first broadband in about 2000, although you could use a dial-up service, of course, which I very much doubt the Barretts would have been investing heavily in during 1992. The internet was a boon to me in my profession, and yet we only got it (dial-up) at home in Iconoclast House in 1998.

Your long post was also full of assumptions which seemed to be heavily driven by your personal view of the world. This is fine, of course - we all do it - but we shouldn't confuse our assumptions about 'what I would have done' with 'what everyone else would have done'. Caz et alia knew Mike Barrett personally and that gave them a deep insight into the man and his many demons. His reasons for making a false confession were absolutely personal to him and those of us who did not know him should be wary of jumping to assumptions based upon what we find credulous and what we find not. There doesn't seem to be any doubt that Mike Barrett was deeply out-of-his-depth when he brought the scrapbook to London. His cack-handed discussion on the return journey with a stranger who turned out to be a journalist in which he couldn't help but reveal what he had in his possession (this incident ultimately led to the early revelation of the scrapbook's foil - James Maybrick - by the Liverpool Post in the Spring of 1993) indicates to us his immature, excitable, and unprofessional mentality - certainly not the mind of a brilliant master-forger. The Feldman video shows him to be effectively bewildered by the maelstrom he had unleased upon himself and his family. By 1995, with his marriage finally collapsing around him and the realisation dawning upon him that he had lost his precious daughter, the bewilderment - prompted by the booze - appears to have fermented into anger and an angry person will lash out with anything at anything. As I look in (from the outside) I do not see the obstacles you see. I see a simple man losing his slender grip on what he had left in his life, and making a false confession about the scrapbook could easily have been a last desperate hurrah to maintain his position within the maelstrom. If he was suffering from confabulation or any dementia-related illness, this would have simply redefined his actions - to him - as the truth of the matter, just as his eventual good health again appears to have prompted 'the truth' to be the original story which he had first told back in 1992.

I am heavily influenced by the man I see in the Feldman video, the man I read about in the seminal texts, the Radio Merseyside broadcast from 1995, his performance at the Cloak & Dagger Club in 1999, and the ongoing iteration of the views thus formed by those who knew Mike best and who come on here and tell us to be careful not to inflate his possible role in the scrapbook's history. Unless we have reason to feel a host of published authors with no apparent history of lying have collectively created a monster out of an angel, we should all listen to what they have to say about the man at the centre of the storm he probably had no idea he was making.

PS I think I have asked you this question before so please forgive me, but can you remind us which books you have read to date on the Maybrick scrapbook?

Cheers,

Ike

Your long post reply to Caz is very revealing. I would estimate that you are in your early 20s, right? I say this because of your extraordinary use of the term 'Age of Ancestry.com' for the year 1992.

I’m in my early 40s, Iconoclast. I came of age before the internet revolution. I have done genealogical research for friends and clients, as a hobby. I know that a disk data collection called “Infobases” (the forerunner of Ancestry) was begun in the early 90s. By 1994, Infobases (later Ancestry) was widely used by researchers, and was considered one of our fastest-growing companies.
I understand that Barrett’s confession was in 1995. There was a broad floppy-disk database of genealogical information available then. The idea that someone could falsely link Barrett’s family with James Maybrick in that year, without being found out, strains credulity.

(By the way—how come Barrett would fret about (falsely) being linked to Maybrick/”Jack the Ripper”—out of worry over his young child--but had no qualms about his child’s father being labelled a notorious forger?)

His cack-handed discussion on the return journey with a stranger who turned out to be a journalist in which he couldn't help but reveal what he had in his possession (this incident ultimately led to the early revelation of the scrapbook's foil - James Maybrick - by the Liverpool Post in the Spring of 1993) indicates to us his immature, excitable, and unprofessional mentality - certainly not the mind of a brilliant master-forger.

My hypothesis is not that Barrett was a “brilliant master forger.” If you review my previous posts, I suggest that certain genuine materials from the Maybrick home—letters, perhaps, or scraps of a journal—found their way to Barrett and possibly unnamed cohorts. I think these materials formed the basis for the forgery, with various JTR elements clumsily inserted here and there. This would explain Mike and Ann’s repeated lies and general incoherence about the provenance of the Diary. They may have been protecting their sources (workmen at Battlecrease?) from accusations of theft.

[Iconoclast]

You're not overly fond of David Orsam are you?

Personally, I'm a huge fan ...

[Observer]

You're not overly fond of David Orsam are you?

[Graham]

Lord Orsam does have other names, too, Pat...

Graham

[Pcdunn]

Orsam = Awesome. It's a homophone.

Interesting. I think it only works like that in the U.K., though. I never got the pun, and always believed Orsam to be a charming British surname.

[Graham]

yeah it was the ripper! ; )

Really? How utterly fascinating! Do tell us more!

Graham

[Abby Normal]

Have recently started to re-read my Ripper books - and I have dozens and dozens of them. In Shirley Harrison's 'The Diary Of Jack The Ripper' she mentions a murder that took place in Battlecrease at some point prior to the Maybricks moving in. Anybody know anything about this? Must have completely slipped my memory (not difficult to do these days).

Graham

yeah it was the ripper! ; )

[Herlock Sholmes]

Och aye tha noo Herlock, ma pal - it's an auld Scottish expression. I'm sure it's evident whit it means, ken?

I like that one Ike. My gran was Scottish but I don’t recall her eve using it,