The Diary—Old Hoax or New?

[Graham]

Erobitha,

you make a good point. As you say, Ted Bundy wasn't even suspected until he was arrested (for something else, I believe), and Dr Bodkin-Adams was a well-respected avuncular GP to the upper middle classes of Eastbourne. I note you omitted John Christie - he too was well-liked by those who knew him. There's Haig, the acid-bath murderer also, a suave playboy-ish figure before whom ladies of a certain swooned. Where the Ripper is concerned, I have to admit I'm no expert in the 'history' of suspects, but of those suspects known actually to have existed, it seems like Montague Druitt is the only 'respectable' one. It does sometimes seem to me that some Ripperologists are still looking for a cloaked and masked shadowy figure with a wide-brimmed hat and flashing eyes, showing just a glimpse of his curved-bladed dagger. Maybe this is an unfair assessment, but not I think wholly inaccurate. Unfortunately, Erobitha, open-mindedness is something of a rare commodity in Ripperology, as I think you're finding out.

All the best with your investigations.

Graham

PS: in spite of what certain posters on here have said of him, you ought to read Feldman's book as soon as poss.

[erobitha]

The Most "Normal" Serial Killers of all time...

Ted Bundy
H.H Holmes
John Wayne Gacy
Richard Angelo
Karl Denke
Dennis Nilson
Albert Fish
Dr Harold Shipman
Philip Markof
Paul Bernado
John Bodkin Adams
Randy Steven Kraft
Dean Corll
Robert Lee Yates
Linda Hazzard


None were regarded as named suspects in advance of being caught one way or another. Many were very active members in their communities or local politics. Most of them were seen as pillars of society. Why do we find it so hard to believe that such a man could commit such crimes?

Opinions are fine, but we have to look through all of history to understand what happened that year in Whitechapel. We must be open minded to all reasonable possibilities.

The scrpabook and watch are not scientifically ruled out and certainly not circumstantially either. In fact both artefacts continue to ask more questions than answer them. Perhaps we will find out one way or another when Time Reveals All.

[Iconoclast]

I've often wondered why the suggestion by a certain well-known author/scriptwriter that Michael Maybrick, Jim's somewhat more loaded brother, has never met with the same vilification as any suggestion that it was Jim wot dun it. Or is the suggestion that good old Mike a.k.a. Steven Adams was the Ripper just too barmy to bother discussing? I mean to say, could a chap who composed 'The Holy City' go around bumping off whores?
(Not that for one instant do I believe that either Maybrick brother was Jack - must make this clear...)

Graham

Graham,

You make a great observation. The answer (as I'm sure we all know) is that no case has been made against Michael. Robinson's book was truly astonishing in its detail and I loved reading it (especially the cryptic references to 'one wet weekend' and a couple of shout-outs for 'Soothsayer'), but it fell well short of a conviction, so of course we all feel comfortable enough not to scream and bluff and bluster and pull our hair out and play fast and loose with the evidence - because none of us think for a moment that Michael Maybrick was the killer.

If people truly felt the same about James Maybrick, it would be a significantly quieter world, I promise you.

Ike

[Trapperologist]

That’s an interesting idea, Graham. Michael Maybrick has a double initial M. I considered that to be the number 1 clue. I remember having Monty as my go-to but looking for other men in the historic record with the letter M. This was back in the 80s, though not for an instant do I believe in a modern hoax.

[Graham]

I've often wondered why the suggestion by a certain well-known author/scriptwriter that Michael Maybrick, Jim's somewhat more loaded brother, has never met with the same vilification as any suggestion that it was Jim wot dun it. Or is the suggestion that good old Mike a.k.a. Steven Adams was the Ripper just too barmy to bother discussing? I mean to say, could a chap who composed 'The Holy City' go around bumping off whores?
(Not that for one instant do I believe that either Maybrick brother was Jack - must make this clear...)

Graham

[Iconoclast]

Yo Ikey, don’t be so modest! I’m sure if there was no Diary, you could have come up with James Maybrick as a suspect.

Well, El Trappo, it is an interesting supposition but one not supported by the evidence: to date, all candidates for Jack have had at least had some logical link to Whitechapel in 1888 before they were proposed or else have drawn attention to themselves in some form long before they were jumped-upon for Jack. What is wholly unique about James Maybrick is that - in the absence of his confession in the form of the Victorian scrapbook and the watch - we would never, ever have seen him proposed as the killer. You just have to look at the vehement opposition to Maybrick in the presence of the scrapbook and the watch to begin to detect quite how vociferously his candidature would have been rejected without them. This should be quite compelling were it not for the howling in the wind since 1992 of the mad packs of wolves in both camps which has dominated the argument until it has literally become nothing but an argument.

James Maybrick was as implausible a foil for Jack the Ripper as you could possibly have imagined. His candidature should have ended after the first bit of research into his life, but it didn't. Nor did it on the second, nor did it on the 102nd. Maybrick - on the contrary - just kept fitting-in and getting better as a candidate rather than worse and that should not have happened were he not actually Jack. If he is innocent of the Whitechapel crimes then a statistical miracle to end all statistical miracle has been observed. Clearly, in a universe as vast and as old as ours you're guaranteed to get one occasionally, so this is what it could be. Most statisticians would look at the Maybrick case, though, and say - all possibility of chance miracle aside - there's just too much going for Maybrick that he must be the man.

So, if there were no scrapbook and no watch, no-one would have come up with James Maybrick as Jack the Ripper. This alone should be ringing our alarm bells. The fact that - once identified as 'Jack' and the research really began - James quickly became an increasingly more likely candidate rather than an increasingly less likely one should have had all the bells in Ripperdom ringing loudly and proudly, for the war was over with every peal of a bell anywhere in our minds.

James Maybrick should never have been identified as Jack the Ripper. This is why he is so strong a candidate to be Jack.

Ike

[Trapperologist]

Honestly, everyone, please keep the compliments coming, even if they are not 100% tried and tested for sincerity content. Tee hee. I'll happily take 'em all.

Icon
A Bit Like That Rocky Statue in Philly Only Without the Hat

Yo Ikey, don’t be so modest! I’m sure if there was no Diary, you could have come up with James Maybrick as a suspect.

[Abby Normal]

The good Lord Orsam will be spitting feathers in his Chigwell semi at my ridiculous mix-up regarding bolts. Clearly they are the harbingers of lightning rather than thunder. Tee hee.

Ike

actually I think thunder bolts and lightning bolts are synonymous-so you should be ok

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Iker,

I know a lot of women who will be happy to hear that.

I know a number of women who are happy that I'm no longer allowed to wear Speedo's in public. Doesn't make them right though.

[Trapperologist]

Iker,

I know a lot of women who will be happy to hear that.

[Iconoclast]

Trappy,

Here's a thought. We could just research Mary Jane Kelly (or whatever the hell she was called) for its compelling appeal alone happy in the knowledge that the lesser mystery which has plagued us for 131 years has been solved.

Just saying.

Not judging.

Much.

Ikerologist
Breaker of Ripper-Related Images

[Trapperologist]

Even if it is real, I'm glad the mystery wasn't swept aside or else we wouldn't have learned so much about Mary Jane Kelly, and the other victims. The mystery behind MJK was/is just as compelling.

[Iconoclast]

Crikey von smikey - I am exhausted merely by the effort of scrolling down what I can only describe as a jolly old 'volley' of retorts from He Who Must Not Be Named (Lord Orsam, obviously - aaargh, the thunder bolts!).

Iconoclast
Jouneyman Genius

The good Lord Orsam will be spitting feathers in his Chigwell semi at my ridiculous mix-up regarding bolts. Clearly they are the harbingers of lightning rather than thunder. Tee hee.

Ike

[Iconoclast]

(im also kind of a fan of you too Icon : ) )
for different reasons lol, but nonetheless admirable!

Honestly, everyone, please keep the compliments coming, even if they are not 100% tried and tested for sincerity content. Tee hee. I'll happily take 'em all.

Icon
A Bit Like That Rocky Statue in Philly Only Without the Hat

[Iconoclast]

"Originally posted by Eliza
My hypothesis is not that Barrett was a “brilliant master forger.” If you review my previous posts, I suggest that certain genuine materials from the Maybrick home—letters, perhaps, or scraps of a journal—found their way to Barrett and possibly unnamed cohorts. I think these materials formed the basis for the forgery, with various JTR elements clumsily inserted here and there. This would explain Mike and Ann’s repeated lies and general incoherence about the provenance of the Diary. They may have been protecting their sources (workmen at Battlecrease?) from accusations of theft."

The Bottom Line -
It is hard to believe and rather ridiculous that any Master Forger/Amateur Forger or even a Nest of Forgers would in their right mind, in choosing their fall guy as Jack the Ripper, choose a suspect living over 200 miles out of Whitechapel.

That is surely a non-starter, or should be.

But strangely as it happens, it isn't. This is either by chance or there are no Forgers at all.

Spider, you old arachnoid and simultaneous voice of reason, you are quite right. In all honesty, the Barrett-as-Forger argument is a lame duck that is far from a vet's place of employment. Every time I wake up screaming in the middle of the night and it's not caused by the realisation that I may have to be a Newcastle fan for life, it's inevitably out of The Terror that Lord Snake-Hips Orsam (forgive me for even suggesting it) may be right. Thankfully, all I have to do is go online and remind myself that he actually believes that it is possible that an illiterate ex-scrap metal dealer with no previous record of master-forgery could have created the Victorian scrapbook. The relief which pours over me washes away the sweat and the fear (assuming, of course, that slumber didn't have me double-dipping into some dystopian nightmare where a leeching slug had buried itself deep into the epidermis of my beloved football club).

I'm with you, you eight-legged wunderkind!

Iconoclast
A Raccoon by Any Other Name