Inspiration for the Fake 'Diary'

[PaulB]

Thanks, Trevor. That was, at least for me, a very illuminating post.

The only thing that worries me is that the 'diary' - if it is a hoax - is a very good one and from what I have read of Barrett it seems unlikely that he could have written it. Still, I could be doing him a disservice here.

Whoever wrote the thing, I believe it to be modern in origin. Despite some good work by Tempus on another thread where he compares the 'diary' handwriting to that on the Stoke Newington postcard, to my untrained eye the 'diary' writing just looks modern. The lower case 'r' alone certainly separates it from the postcard.

Best wishes,
Steve.

Hi Steve,
Soothsayer is on the button, I'm afraid. Mike's life was rapidly disintegrating and he blamed the diary.

[The Good Michael]

What makes the diary a good hoax is that there seems to be enough obfuscation of its provenance to allow debate to continue. The scrapbook is, on its own, a silly thing. The writing is melodramatic, overdone, and not really contemporary and seems to be a product of the 1940s-1960s to me, and something manufactured by someone who read pulp fiction. The real inspiration to me for the diary would be HP Lovecraft and his style of using journals and diaries, in melodramatic fashion, to tell a story. Another inspiration might be the copycat tales by Ramsey Campbell. It seems to me that the believers in the text are those who like a good ghost story and not critical analysts.

Mike

[Trevor Marriott]

Read a few books about the background to it all, Trevor, or listen to the people who were there. The admission is worthless. Sadly.

An admission is worthless if it can be proved that it was made under a promise, an inducement, duress, or a threat.

But it doesnt mean to say that the content of any such admission would be worthless. It may be worthless without a complaint to the police but to researchers who have studied this its vrey relevant in determining when and who did actually write it.

The content of the first affadivit is very detailed in how the diary was forged.

For the police to have been involved someone would have to have made an official complaint in writing. If tthat be the case who did make the complaint and was it made in writing ?

How things sometimes work is i.e

ABC obtain money from DEF by fraud or deception

DEF finds out about the deception or fraud and wants their money back

DEF says to ABC give it back or I will go to the police

ABC duly obliges and pays back DEF

No need for police involvment.

Could this have happened ?

[PaulB]

An admission is worthless if it can be proved that it was made under a promise, an inducement, duress, or a threat.

But it doesnt mean to say that the content of any such admission would be worthless. It may be worthless without a complaint to the police but to researchers who have studied this its vrey relevant in determining when and who did actually write it.

The content of the first affadivit is very detailed in how the diary was forged.

For the police to have been involved someone would have to have made an official complaint in writing. If tthat be the case who did make the complaint and was it made in writing ?

How things sometimes work is i.e

ABC obtain money from DEF by fraud or deception

DEF finds out about the deception or fraud and wants their money back

DEF says to ABC give it back or I will go to the police

ABC duly obliges and pays back DEF

No need for police involvment.

Could this have happened ?

Trevor, all I can suggest is that you acquaint yourself with the facts before forming and expressing opinions. In very simple terms, Mike's life fell apart and he blamed the diary, and fueled by anger and pride and an excess of alcohol, confused and hurt, deserted by his wife and beloved daughter, he thought he might be able to put things right if he got rid of the diary from his life, he therefore confessed to having forged it. The next day, as his emotional pendulum swung the other way, he withdrew his confession. And so it continued in various manifestations, but one thing which generally seems to be agreed on is that he didn't forge it. We'll probably never know for sure.

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor, all I can suggest is that you acquaint yourself with the facts before forming and expressing opinions. In very simple terms, Mike's life fell apart and he blamed the diary, and fueled by anger and pride and an excess of alcohol, confused and hurt, deserted by his wife and beloved daughter, he thought he might be able to put things right if he got rid of the diary from his life, he therefore confessed to having forged it. The next day, as his emotional pendulum swung the other way, he withdrew his confession. And so it continued in various manifestations, but one thing which generally seems to be agreed on is that he didn't forge it. We'll probably never know for sure.

Well if he didnt forge it, when the heat was put on him why not just say so. Why go to all the trouble of giving such a detailed and intricate explanation, which in my opinion could only have come from someone who was invloved in it.

It doesnt add up you paint a picture of a pathetic man in mental turmoil. Yet the affadivait and its contents dont paint the same picture.

[PaulB]

Well if he didnt forge it, when the heat was put on him why not just say so. Why go to all the trouble of giving such a detailed and intricate explanation, which in my opinion could only have come from someone who was invloved in it.

It doesnt add up you paint a picture of a pathetic man in mental turmoil. Yet the affadivait and its contents dont paint the same picture.

Believe what you want, Trevor. But as you haven't read the books, haven't read the articles, have undertaken any investigations into the diary of your own, probably haven't seen, handled, examined the diary itself, haven't met and questioned any of those involved, weren't with the police when they undertook their fraud investigations, and weren't ever up half the night with phone calls from a drunken Mike Barrett, I really don't think you are in much of a position to dispute what I say or, indeed, comment. And frankly, since I know and witnessed that man in his state of mental turmoil, I'm not really much interested whether you think the affidavit paints the picture or not. It's pretty much what happened, is what I witnessed.

[Trevor Marriott]

Believe what you want, Trevor. But as you haven't read the books, haven't read the articles, have undertaken any investigations into the diary of your own, probably haven't seen, handled, examined the diary itself, haven't met and questioned any of those involved, weren't with the police when they undertook their fraud investigations, and weren't ever up half the night with phone calls from a drunken Mike Barrett, I really don't think you are in much of a position to dispute what I say or, indeed, comment. And frankly, since I know and witnessed that man in his state of mental turmoil, I'm not really much interested whether you think the affidavit paints the picture or not. It's pretty much what happened, is what I witnessed.

And so a drunken man in the state you describe goes into a solicitors and with great detail describes the events surrounding a forgery. Come on !

This is the second controverial Ripper issue you have been "personally" involved in where the question of "who was responsible for the writing of " has been brought into question

How coincidental is that and they say lightning doesnt strike twice in the same place.

Just to make it clear I am not inferring or suggesting anyhting untoward I am simply stating fact.

One simple question Paul

Did you help Barrett write the draft to take to the solicitor ?

[Monty]

Whoa Trevor,

That's a big accusation there Trevor.

Not one to make without supporting evidence.

I'm sure Paul will respond as he sees fit, however I'd be interested in what you got to 'prove' the accusation Paul is involved in not one but two forgeries.

...And we were getting on so well.

Monty

[Trevor Marriott]

[QUOTE=Monty;218466]Whoa Trevor,

That's a big accusation there Trevor.

Not one to make without supporting evidence.

I'm sure Paul will respond as he sees fit, however I'd be interested in what you got to 'prove' the accusation Paul is involved in not one but two forgeries.

...And we were getting on so well.

Monty
[/QUOTE

No accusation, thats been made clear in my post I am not that daft.

[Trevor Marriott]

[QUOTE=Trevor Marriott;218467]

Whoa Trevor,

That's a big accusation there Trevor.

Not one to make without supporting evidence.

I'm sure Paul will respond as he sees fit, however I'd be interested in what you got to 'prove' the accusation Paul is involved in not one but two forgeries.

...And we were getting on so well.

Monty
[/QUOTE

No accusation, thats been made clear in my post I am not that daft.

In order to avoid confusion I have re worded the question

[Jonathan H]

What was the result of the fraud investigation, and who initiated that?

I realise that of course people can lie under oath, but I am trying to find out the legal status of the claims.

[Steven Russell]

I realise that of course people can lie under oath, but I am trying to find out the legal status of the claims.

Of course you do. I apologise for the flippant and patronising nature of my earlier post.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Soothsayer]

What makes the diary a good hoax is that there seems to be enough obfuscation of its provenance to allow debate to continue. The scrapbook is, on its own, a silly thing. The writing is melodramatic, overdone, and not really contemporary and seems to be a product of the 1940s-1960s to me, and something manufactured by someone who read pulp fiction. The real inspiration to me for the diary would be HP Lovecraft and his style of using journals and diaries, in melodramatic fashion, to tell a story. Another inspiration might be the copycat tales by Ramsey Campbell. It seems to me that the believers in the text are those who like a good ghost story and not critical analysts.

Mike

Or it's none of those things or some of those things, and yet was still written by James Maybrick as an inadvertant admission of his crimes!

The fact that James Maybrick's murderous musings may or may not pre-date the style or styles of others cannot possibly be held up as good reason to doubt its possible authenticity!

[Trevor Marriott]

What was the result of the fraud investigation, and who initiated that?

I realise that of course people can lie under oath, but I am trying to find out the legal status of the claims.

You and me both but I am sure Paul will enlighten us

[Monty]

[QUOTE=Trevor Marriott;218469]

In order to avoid confusion I have re worded the question

It wasn't the question which needed to be re-worded. However I'm sure Paul will take your back tracking with good faith.

Monty