The Diary

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

True, there is no reference to "FM" or "F" or "M". But the diarist
does say he's left his mark.

Thanks as always for another insightful post, Livia. And as I haven't thanked you on Casebook, let me again say that without your help I'd have had a far inferior presentation to make at York. I'm going to be putting up our notes at the Forums and then the Casebook Wiki at some point.

I am packing to go up to a grad school reunion (30th.....sigh.....) and don't have time to fact check but wasn't the coroner's jury brought to Miller's Court to see the room for themselves? That might bolster the argument that there was something worth seeing there.

But I do think it important to make clear what the Diarist does and doesn't claim. There's enough force field distortion around this thing as it is.

[Livia]

The whole "FM on the wall" debate has always turned me off. It's almost certainly an artifact of the photograph itself and more importantly, the Diarist makes no claim whatsoever of leaving "FM" "F" or "M" anywhere in the room or on Kelly. It's just not in the text.

True, there is no reference to "FM" or "F" or "M". But the diarist
does say he's left his mark.

But how coincidental is it that of all the letter
combinations possible in a 26 character alphabet, 1,352
to be exact (if my math is correct), that those two
particular letters were chosen? And if they are some
sort of photographic artifact, why does nothing of
the sort appear in the photo of the table with the
viscera piled on it? Presumably both pictures were
taken with the same camera at the same time, by
the same photographer.

And then there's this:

New York Times November 10, 1888
LONDON'S SMALL POLICE FORCE.


Anothor murder by the Whitechapel assassin is reported, and unless he
becomes alarmed and abandons his project, as announced in writing near
the body of one of his victims, of making the number of his atrocious
crimes an even score, and then giving himself up to the police, many
more will apparently follow, as the London police seem absolutely
powerless to put an end to these mysterious crimes....


Brooklyn Eagle Tuesday December 28, 1897

Circumstantial Evidence
An interesting story of the "Jack the Ripper" Murder


A chat about circumstantial testimony in murder cases,
apropos of the Luetgert case, brings to mind a remarkable
instance of the fallibility of human testimony as regards
the identification of the human body, of more recent date
than any instance quoted yesterday. It is part of the history
of that remarkable series of atrocious muders committed in the
Whitechapel district of London, in the autumn of 1888, by a man
who is known indefinitely in criminal annals as "Jack the Ripper".
His fourth victim was a widow named Mary Ann Chapman. Her mutiliated
body was found at daylight in the yard of a house in Hanbury
Street. On the shutter of the adjoining dwelling there was found
scribbled with challk the following message from the mysterious
assassin: "I have murdered four, and will murder sixteen more before
I surrender myself to the police." Sir Charles Warren, who was in
charge of the Scotland Yard detective force, caused this prophecy
to be erased and was subsequently severely criticised for having done
so without securing a photographic reproduction of the murderer's
handwriting..."



Shirley Harrison The American connection p. 168

Quoted from the New York World November 10, 1888

"...Profiting from the previous blunders the police called
a photographer to take pictures of the room before the body
was removed. This gives rise to a report that there was
more handwriting on the wall, though three or four people
who were allowed to enter the room say they did not observe
it. But possibly they were too excited to notice such details..."


So apparently there were contemporaneous reports that
someone was writing on walls at the crime scenes during
the autumn of 1888.

FWIW

Liv

[Jason]

Do we have a photo of that?

that remark actually made me wee a little !

[Iain Wilson]

I think miakaal4 meant the actual position of the body at the scene, not the diagram, Iain.


Kind regards,


Tempus

Do we have a photo of that?

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

Are Shirley Harrison and Mike Barrett still getting royalties from the sale of this book?

I would hope Shirley is. Remember that she paid over 80,000 pounds in legal expenses as she was on the hook for part of Robert Smith's fees.

Robert Smith was a publisher. He did what publishers do. The Diary didn't work out the way he hoped. It was -at that time - a business proposition.

Shirley is an author, paid to write a book. She did what authors paid to write a book do. I think Sally Evemy did an outstanding piece of research considering she had no real budget to work with.

None of these people were Ripperologists.

If you are looking for bad actors, or misguided if you want to be charitable, I would look towards Feldman, Harris, Barrett and AFI. They all laid the foundation for the acrimony that continues to this day in this very thread.

[miakaal4]

I know my point about Eddows is long and hardly worth a discussion, but please remember that I am speaking from a Maybrick did it point of view. And Maybrick was into leaving clues and playing funny games. In his 'report' after the Double Event he writes about leaving his mark; presumably the cuts on the face, but in the rhymes following this he say's;
"Oh Mr Abberline, he is a clever little man
He keeps back all that he can
For do I know better, indeed I do
did I not leave him a very good clue."
Probably the tin box (empty) maybe the cigarette case, or was it the way he arranged the leg and body? Just an Idea is all.

[Sally]

Tempus -

Many capital letters in the latin alphabet are composed of straight lines. Natural processes will often form letter shapes, accordingly (because natural processes can form straight lines)

There are many issues with your theory (using the term loosely)

One of them is that your 'F' is upside down. Why? One of them is that it is not the only possible 'letter' on the arm - so what are we to make of the potential 'C' or 'G' a bit further up. One of them is that you could be looking at blood run off. Gravity will do that.

Look at the behaviour of rain on a window, and you'll see what I mean.

[Jason]

just asking a question here:

1. what side of the bed do you think the killer was stood when he made these F and M marks ? because the way i see it, they kind of lend themselves to being seen in their glory from the other side of the bed more than for the person who surveys the scene or photographs it. Just an observation !

2. and should that be the case, there doesnt appear to be much room on that side of the bed. Now he may have possibly been sat on top of her as he did this of course, but looking at the mess of the body, this could have been a bit tricky. The F would be difficult to carve in the flesh from the more roomy side of the bed, because if you look at it, it is technically back to front if this was the case.

[miakaal4]

Maybricks diary is full of rhyme tryouts. Lots are repeated and crossed out. It's like he is doodling or playing mindgames, it had been made clear that his brother Michael had made up a verse or verses that had clearly impressed James. Whether he sent the verse in a letter or told James verbally is unknown. However in the midst of the diary, Maybrick writes; "Thank God I have the courage to stop sending them." He is clearly referring to the verses, but to whom did he send them? There is an inference it is Abberline.

[Tempus omnia revelat]

My Specsavers is right next door to the psychiatrists....wanna meet for a coffee?

Andy, for you:




Compare the mark on her arm to the letter of the alphabet below. It is somewhat similar, I think you'll agree.

F

You can also see the chemise on top of the body. Both are very easy to see.


Kind regards,

Tempus

[Tempus omnia revelat]

Seriously? A diagram drawn by a policeman is a clue left by Maybrick? Really? REALLY?!?!?

I think miakaal4 meant the actual position of the body at the scene, not the diagram, Iain.


Kind regards,


Tempus

[Tempus omnia revelat]

Please excuse my chopping of your post. Now that you have called my attention to it, I do see what you are referring to on Kelly's arm. I am in no position to opine whether it's "really" there or in our mind's eye.

The whole "FM on the wall" debate has always turned me off. It's almost certainly an artifact of the photograph itself and more importantly, the Diarist makes no claim whatsoever of leaving "FM" "F" or "M" anywhere in the room or on Kelly. It's just not in the text.

Robert. Nowhere in the text is there a specific reference saying 'I am going to leave an FM', you are right. However, he does state 'An initial here and an initial there will tell of the whoring mother.' Suggesting:

A) That he has left at least two initials of some kind or another and,

B) That they refer to the whoring mother.

The whoring mother is quite clearly a reference to his wife Florence. He calls her 'the whore' and 'the bitch' throughout the diary. All that is being taken here is a simple logical step.

Add to this the fact that around the area of the body we can just so happen to find things that look like Fs and Ms and the inference of the diarist is clear.


Kind regards,


Tempus

[Iain Wilson]

Oh dear am I going to get some stick for this...I was just looking at a thred discussing a diagram of poor old Kate Eddows. Now, her right leg is bent and her left is straight, ok, her left arm sticks out abit from the side and between it and her body is the piece of colon. Could this not be the "Clue" Maybrick was on about? I might be seeing things but could the bent leg not be a J and the other leg, colon and arm be the three lines of an M? Give me time to run for shelter Phil.

Seriously? A diagram drawn by a policeman is a clue left by Maybrick? Really? REALLY?!?!?

[Jason]

this thread is like one of the outside news features where the reporter is having a really serious discussion with someone else ( who is equally as serious ) and in the background there is always someone arsing about for the camera !! funny to watch but my advice between the two serious ones on here would be to ignore it or do it by PM ......just my opinion !

[miakaal4]

Oh dear am I going to get some stick for this...I was just looking at a thred discussing a diagram of poor old Kate Eddows. Now, her right leg is bent and her left is straight, ok, her left arm sticks out abit from the side and between it and her body is the piece of colon. Could this not be the "Clue" Maybrick was on about? I might be seeing things but could the bent leg not be a J and the other leg, colon and arm be the three lines of an M? Give me time to run for shelter Phil.