Who was the author of the 'Maybrick' diary? Some options.

[caz]

And you would still think it was an old hoax.

No way, Abby. If you were to fake a Victorian diary I would detect your barely decipherable 'text-speak' in seconds.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

If the elementary errors had been ironed out, the whole thing would make for a more lively read; personally, I get worn out after reading only a few pages because of all the clunkers they contain. It's like trying to sprint barefoot over jagged rocks.

You were looking for 'a more lively read' in a diary you believe was intended to frame nobody Jim Maybrick for the horrific murders of a handful of penniless drabs? No wonder we are poles apart on this one, Gareth.

My ex once gave me that book written by Ian Brady, which I never could bring myself to read, and which ended up in some unfortunate charity shop in Croydon. Now I would have expected that one to wear me out and be like 'trying to sprint barefoot over jagged rocks'.

Love,

Caz
X

[Abby Normal]

No way, Abby. If you were to fake a Victorian diary I would detect your barely decipherable 'text-speak' in seconds.

Love,

Caz
X

If you can’t even detect the “Barrett speak” then I doubt it.

[Darryl Kenyon]

I am no expert on Maybrick but i believe it has been suggested that he was a hypochondriac, perhaps even of failing health . If that is the case would he travel, [and i assume stay] to the slums of the East End on a regular basis to kill, where he could pick up any number of diseases, such as Cholera and Tuberculosis ? Which where less understood in the Victorian era, as in how people got infected etc. Coupled with the fact that most possibly Jack lived in the area, was of the same class and was probably in his Twenties or Thirties, and committed offenses leading up to first murder. Again i am no expert on Maybrick but none of this seems to fit him at all

[caz]

I'm sure that the diarist imagined James Maybrick thinking about travelling down from Liverpool to pop into Windsor Castle

Exactly. It's a bleedin' obvious fantasy, isn't it? And that, as far as I can see, is all it was ever meant to be. "Sir Jim" the fantasist, who thought he could do everything, from chatting up Her Majesty and spreading his unique brand of mayhem - mutilating penniless drabs across the Whitechapel map - throughout the land, to writing about it in prose and poetry that would stun the world and even his brother Michael with its quality.

My point relates not to the possibility of a few private individuals owning a telephone in the LVP, but to when the phrase "give him/her a call" became a widespread term for communicating by telephone, as opposed to "dialling", "telephoning" or "ringing" them.

And you still think your late 1980s hoaxer would have used the phrase in the sense of telephoning Queen Victoria, rather than calling on her in person, without thinking this might ring alarm bells for the average modern reader? Disappointing, Gareth.

If it had been used in the sense of telephoning, I'd have expected the hoaxer to have done that either in the knowledge that JM had a telephone, or in keeping with a character who would have fancied himself as one of the few with access to this new-fangled bit of kit. Either way, this would have been more for the discerning reader of yesteryear, and suggestive of a hoax created prior to 1970, when many homes were yet to boast a 'telling bone'.

Love,

Caz
X

[Abby Normal]

I am no expert on Maybrick but i believe it has been suggested that he was a hypochondriac, perhaps even of failing health . If that is the case would he travel, [and i assume stay] to the slums of the East End on a regular basis to kill, where he could pick up any number of diseases, such as Cholera and Tuberculosis ? Which where less understood in the Victorian era, as in how people got infected etc. Coupled with the fact that most possibly Jack lived in the area, was of the same class and was probably in his Twenties or Thirties, and committed offenses leading up to first murder. Again i am no expert on Maybrick but none of this seems to fit him at all

Your right Darryl
The only thing similar was that he was an English gentile imho.

[caz]

If you can’t even detect the “Barrett speak” then I doubt it.

The "Barrett speak" where, Abby? In your posts or the diary?

If you mean the diary, could you direct me to something composed by Mike - anything in fact - that can be compared with the diary text, so we can all see if it resembles "Barrett speak" in any way, shape or form?

Thank you.

Love,

Caz
X

[Abby Normal]

The "Barrett speak" where, Abby? In your posts or the diary?

If you mean the diary, could you direct me to something composed by Mike - anything in fact - that can be compared with the diary text, so we can all see if it resembles "Barrett speak" in any way, shape or form?

Thank you.

Love,

Caz
X

The clunky attempts at Victorian in general and I seen specifically.

[Sam Flynn]

If it had been used in the sense of telephoning

It needn't have been, Caz. My suggestion is that the phrase "give her a call" would have become used more frequently, almost subconsciously, when widespread access to telephones had become the norm. Prior to that, you might occasionally have "given her a call" in the sense of "popping in", but I suspect that most people would have tended to "call on her", "visit her", "pay her a visit" or similar.

[Abby Normal]

It needn't have been, Caz. My suggestion is that the phrase "give her a call" would have become used more frequently, almost subconsciously, when widespread access to telephones had become the norm. Prior to that, you might occasionally have "given her a call" in the sense of "popping in", but I suspect that most people would have tended to "call on her", "visit her", "pay her a visit" or similar.

Exactly.

[caz]

The clunky attempts at Victorian in general and I seen specifically.

If you seen 'I seen' in the diary, could you direct me to the page number, so I could see it again for myself, Abby?

Thank you.

But how 'clunky' would you say Mike's known attempts at 'Victorian' were, in particular? And how would you say, in your considered opinion, do they compare with the diary text?

You do study such things before airing your views, I hope? You seem far too smart on ripper related topics to spout stuff like this without checking.

Perhaps you could address the above before thinking up your next one-liner.

Love,

Caz
X

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Caz

The phrase used in the diary is "the whore seen her master today", or similar. Don't know the page number offhand.

[caz]

It needn't have been, Caz. My suggestion is that the phrase "give her a call" would have become used more frequently, almost subconsciously, when widespread access to telephones had become the norm. Prior to that, you might occasionally have "given her a call" in the sense of "popping in", but I suspect that most people would have tended to "call on her", "visit her", "pay her a visit" or similar.

But go further back, Gareth. Don't be afraid. At the time the hoaxer was meant to have been writing - JM's time - it was much more common to say "give me a call" as in "come up and see me".

You may well argue against this, but I suspect you know it's true and will just argue that your hoaxer used the same phrase more by accident than design, because they were thinking subconsciously about the 'dog and bone' at the time.

This is not the best example in the diary of Abby's 'clunky' Victorian usage. In fact it's spot on. My grandfather was a Victorian, and in the late 1950s and early 1960s, when I was lucky enough to be in his company, I have no doubt whatsoever he'd have recognised "give her a call" for what it surely was.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Exactly.

Is there an echo in here?

If I were Gareth, I would be very worried indeed to have Abby chiming in with 'exactly' after my posts.

Love,

Caz
X

[Joshua Rogan]

It needn't have been, Caz. My suggestion is that the phrase "give her a call" would have become used more frequently, almost subconsciously, when widespread access to telephones had become the norm. Prior to that, you might occasionally have "given her a call" in the sense of "popping in", but I suspect that most people would have tended to "call on her", "visit her", "pay her a visit" or similar.

I think Jerryd posted a press interview with Albert Bachert from 1890 which uses the phrase "gave him a call", post #8, 3rd article in this thread;

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=10554