Who was the author of the 'Maybrick' diary? Some options.

[Abby Normal]

Hi c.d.,

Yes, I was told it goes back to the Battle of Agincourt, because the French had threatened to cut off two fingers of any captured Englishman so they couldn't fire a bow: the English archers therefore raised two fingers as a show of defiance. Not sure how historical accurate this is though!

Bad day for the French, that one.

[Sam Flynn]

Would James Maybrick be a top suspect without the diary's existence?

It's highly unlikely that he'd have been mentioned in the same breath as the Ripper murders, if it hadn't been for the diary. Indeed, Liverpudlians and avid true crime enthusiasts apart, I doubt that many of us would even have heard about Maybrick in any capacity if the diary hadn't surfaced.

[Sam Flynn]

I was told it goes back to the Battle of Agincourt, because the French had threatened to cut off two fingers of any captured Englishman so they couldn't fire a bow

The 500 Welsh longbowmen, who were so instrumental in Henry's success, were presumably exempted from such punishment

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’d always believed this story until I saw a Historian on tv a few months ago saying that it was a myth. I found this:

https://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2007/07/02/two-fingers-up-to-english-history/

[John G]

Hello John,

I read an interesting explanation as to why British people use two extended fingers instead of one to insult somebody. The whole English archers thing. Are you familiar with that?

c.d.

Hi c.d.,

Yes, I was told it goes back to the Battle of Agincourt, because the French had threatened to cut off two fingers of any captured Englishman so they couldn't fire a bow: the English archers therefore raised two fingers as a show of defiance. Not sure how historical accurate this is though!

[DirectorDave]

I have read thru a few of these threads regarding the Maybrick diary. I am still trying to piece together some of the basic facts. Any help would be appreciated.

Am I correct in assuming that the majority of opinion of Ripperologists is that the diary was a fake?

Yes, although amoung the plethora of suspects James Maybrick, due to the Diary is favoured by a significant minority of Ripperologists.

(That is taken from the (Dodgy) poll on here and my own experience of the field, we have not held an official Ripper Referendum yet!)

And that there is supporting evidence including a confession and an ad searching for a diary (acquiring a Victorian diary)?

Lots of evidence....not in Maybrick's Handwriting, Handwriting looks modern (imo), a couple of debated anachronisms, terrible provenance, confession of forgery (retracted), pages missing suggesting it was something else before this "diary"....to name a few.

I'll leave the case for the defence of this ex-photoalbum to it's disciples.

[AmericanSherlock]

I have read thru a few of these threads regarding the Maybrick diary. I am still trying to piece together some of the basic facts. Any help would be appreciated.

Am I correct in assuming that the majority of opinion of Ripperologists is that the diary was a fake? And that there is supporting evidence including a confession and an ad
searching for a diary (acquiring a Victorian diary)? And then of course many of the terms and colloquialisms are debated and dated here as we try to determine what era it likely came from.

What is the counter argument to this? Is there a particular, separate reason to believe the diary was real or is it simply a case of negating the criticisms of it (perhaps Mike the confessor had ulterior motives and was incapable of creating it anyway etc) . If all the evidence that points towards a fake is discredited then I could see one could argue for its at least possible authenticity as there would be no particular reason to assume it's fake.

However there does seem to be quite a bit of separate evidence it was faked or am I incorrect here? Can anyone offer a brief synopsis?

Am I also correct in inferring that the authors of the interesting Ripper Diary Book (I believe the poster Caz is 1 of them?) while somewhat impartial lean toward the authenticity of the diary? Would James Maybrick be a top suspect without the diary's existence?

Thanks, sorry for rambling post

[c.d.]

Hello John,

I read an interesting explanation as to why British people use two extended fingers instead of one to insult somebody. The whole English archers thing. Are you familiar with that?

c.d.

[John G]

I swear, English people have so many expressions, slang and euphemisms to learn they are probably at least 15 before they can get out their first sentence.

c.d.

That's the problem, c.d. Many of these regional expressions are totally confusing to most British people. For instance, I was once called a "barnpot" by a Scottish pub landlord. It didn't really sound that complementary, however, it wasn't until the internet came along that I discovered it basically means a moron!

[Sam Flynn]

Not in the London area it's not, Gareth.

Not in my experience, Caz. I've heard quasi-Cockneys in the Darftord/Bexley areas use the expression, and Phil has already posted that link to Peter Sellers' impression of a London actor using it. "I seen" - with its relatives, "I done", "I says" and "I goes" - seems to be present in the everyday speech of people of predominantly working-class cultures all over Britain, London included.

Not that it should matter a jot to you, Gareth, because you believe a Scouser or two did write the diary!

"I seen" isn't peculiarly Scouse, though, and that's never been my point. I believe that one or more lower-class (and, frankly, none-to-bright) people wrote the diary, and its containing the phrase "the whore seen her master" is perfectly congruent with that hypothesis.

[c.d.]

I swear, English people have so many expressions, slang and euphemisms to learn they are probably at least 15 before they can get out their first sentence.

c.d.

[Sam Flynn]

"I seen" is also still very common, sad to say, amongst Brummies.

'Tis true of South Wales, too, Graham. I often hear it in my home town, and at work in nearby Swansea.

[John G]

Thanks John. Which one are you?

Neither Abby, I was born in Nottingham and I don't think they have a name for that!

[Abby Normal]

A scouser is someone from Liverpool, Abby. A person from Newcastle, or the north-east of England generally, would be a geordie.

Thanks John. Which one are you?

[John G]

A scouser is someone from Liverpool, Abby. A person from Newcastle, or the north-east of England generally, would be a geordie.