Acquiring A Victorian Diary

[rjpalmer]

I will remind everyone yet again to be cautious as the author of the Maybrick scrapbook did not write "one-off" anything whatsoever and that it is purely the interpretation of those determined to uncover a hoax which leads people to imagine that it should be interpreted with (rather than without) the critical hyphen (metaphorically speaking).

This is one example, among many, why it would be interesting to see the typescript of the Diary recovered from the Barrett's word processor. Did Anne's version use the hyphen or not? I have no idea, but one might as well get it from the horse's mouth.

[Iconoclast]

Aye, indeed Ike - but it took the Villa's record signing to pop one in.

Feldman was I believe originally convinced that the Diary came to light by means of being found under the floorboards by electricians. It seems that something was found, and taken to Liverpool University by the finders for examination. Feldman followed them to the University to investigate - well, he would, wouldn't he? - but was basically told to mind his own business. As far as I know we still don't know what it was that swas found; if indeed anything at all. We all know that Feldman later became convinced that the Diary was abstracted from Battlecrease by a 'skivvy' and that it was passed to Billy Graham's father's family. This is a scenario which, speaking purely personally, is not an impossibility, but at this distance, and without Anne Graham's input, is difficult to prove.

Graham

I don't think the artefact taken to Liverpool University was ever verified satisfactorily - it may not even have happened at all.

The 'skivvy' theory provides us with a huge opportunity to give the scrapbook's authenticity a massive fillip as the lady (for ever it was in those days) was almost-certainly the viperous Alice Yapp. She was said to have attended Florence's trial in the company of Elizabeth Formby (source: Anne Graham). If this were on record anywhere, it would be a self-evident and very direct link between Battlecrease House and Anne Graham's lineage. For me, that would be game over, scrapbook proven, Maybrick guilty as charged.

[Graham]

Aye, indeed Ike - but it took the Villa's record signing to pop one in.

Feldman was I believe originally convinced that the Diary came to light by means of being found under the floorboards by electricians. It seems that something was found, and taken to Liverpool University by the finders for examination. Feldman followed them to the University to investigate - well, he would, wouldn't he? - but was basically told to mind his own business. As far as I know we still don't know what it was that swas found; if indeed anything at all. We all know that Feldman later became convinced that the Diary was abstracted from Battlecrease by a 'skivvy' and that it was passed to Billy Graham's father's family. This is a scenario which, speaking purely personally, is not an impossibility, but at this distance, and without Anne Graham's input, is difficult to prove.

Graham

[Iconoclast]

PS: I just nipped over to the JTR Forum to read the latest fingers-round-throats confrontation, this time about old houses, their floor-boards, and what's under 'em. It occurs to me that, if one assumes that the Diary, whoever wrote it, was meant to be seen, otherwise what was the point, then why the hell shove it under the floorboards of any house any where?

Graham

Yes, Graham (great win for the Villa last night, by the way), storing something under the floorboards once you've finally decided (last page of the scrapbook) that you expect it to be found is not congruent, which (as a scrapbook believer) leads me back to Provenance I v2 (the Anne Graham one) which works, just about.

Ike

[Graham]

PS: I just nipped over to the JTR Forum to read the latest fingers-round-throats confrontation, this time about old houses, their floor-boards, and what's under 'em. It occurs to me that, if one assumes that the Diary, whoever wrote it, was meant to be seen, otherwise what was the point, then why the hell shove it under the floorboards of any house any where?

Graham

[Graham]

Thanks Harry.

I've just finished re-reading Shirley Harrison's book (Blake edition) for the first time in however many years, and it's reinforced my feeling that the Diary was (a) never produced in any way, shape or form by the Barretts; (b) was not filched out of Battlecrease by the electricians, which is reinforced by J Menges' Post 1811, quoting from Shirley's book. At this stage - and bear in mind that my interest in the entire Ripper saga is simply that of a casual and interested observer - I haven't quite got my head round just how the Diary did get to the Barratts. Anne's story of its being passed to her by Billy Graham is, I feel, not at all implausible, but to me at any rate doesn't at this stage strike me as totally watertight and concrete. And as to whether the thing was truly written by James Maybrick, I can't feel totally convinced that it was. However, if it wasn't, then my gut feeling - and I have a big gut - is that it must have been composed by someone close to him and to the family. Time, as someone once observed, will reveal all; or so it's said.

Graham

[harry]

Abby's apologies are noted.
It is obvious the 'one off' retail,refers to the sale.The sultanas are the subject of the sale.The advert could have been worded differently,and still conveyed the same message,with any item mentioned,but lets keep to the main purpose, which is the use of 'one off'.
I have messaged two posters with the name of the newspaper.I might add that one has to pay to access the archives of that paper.I use it because I am researching another topic.
Thanks Graham and Ike for your comments.

[Yabs]

This is currently being discussed over on the Forums.

https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=26734&page=46

RJ Palmer posted this-

Shirley Harrison reports:

"...We made a return visit to Battlecrease House in June 1997 and sat
in James Maybrick's bedroom, now Paul Dodd's living room. It was
an eerie experience.

Paul was adamant. The house was originally gaslit and converted to
electricity in the 1920s. It was rewired again when his father bought it in
1946 and again in 1977 when Paul himself had gutted the place and
lifted the floor boards. Had anything been hidden, he was sure that he would have found it then."

JM

Thank you, JM.
I’ll give the whole thread a read.

[jmenges]

This is currently being discussed over on the Forums.

https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=26734&page=46

RJ Palmer posted this-

Shirley Harrison reports:

"...We made a return visit to Battlecrease House in June 1997 and sat
in James Maybrick's bedroom, now Paul Dodd's living room. It was
an eerie experience.

Paul was adamant. The house was originally gaslit and converted to
electricity in the 1920s. It was rewired again when his father bought it in
1946 and again in 1977 when Paul himself had gutted the place and
lifted the floor boards. Had anything been hidden, he was sure that he would have found it then."

JM

[Iconoclast]

Just a thought.....
I know the story goes that the ripper diary was found when the floorboards were lifted at Battlecrease in 1992 for the first time since 1888.
I'm just thinking, were they not lifted before that when the house first became electrically powered for central ceiling lighting etc after the turn of the century?
I'm sure this must have been asked before so apologies for my ignorance if so.

Hi Yabs,

Personally, I don't know the answer to this, although I am sure I am right in saying that domestic electricity was available in the late Victorian period. To be honest, it's not something I give a lot a thought to (as I don't believe the scrapbook came from under the floorboards of Battlecrease House - I believe, rather, that a servant girl found it in Battlecrease House in 1889 after James Maybrick's death, literally laundered it via Elizabeth Formby's laundry, leaving it for Elizabeth to give to her daughter Edith who passed it to her stepson Billy Graham, who gave it to his daughter Anne Graham, who foolishly - thank God! - gave it to Tony Devereux, who gave it to his mate Bongo Barrett, husband of Anne Graham and erstwhile master-forger and world's greatest ever undiscovered actor, who gave it to the world).

Hope this helps.

Ike

[Kaz]

The bidding just ended one minute ago - sold for 26.88

BARGAIN!

MAD mike barrett was done... but this was before ebay days... in fairness...

[Yabs]

Just a thought.....
I know the story goes that the ripper diary was found when the floorboards were lifted at Battlecrease in 1992 for the first time since 1888.
I'm just thinking, were they not lifted before that when the house first became electrically powered for central ceiling lighting etc after the turn of the century?
I'm sure this must have been asked before so apologies for my ignorance if so.

[Yabs]

The bidding just ended one minute ago - sold for 26.88

An absolute bargain.
hypothetically speaking. If I was a forger I would remove that cover along with the used pages and part of the spine.
If done correctly, you could make it appear that only the cover was missing.
This would seem more natural with a hundred year old book, than having half of the pages missing with the cover intact.

[APerno]

Haha, let’’s keep an eye out for this turning up in the future.
it does say in the item description, 65-70 used pages but many unused and blank pages.

The bidding just ended one minute ago - sold for 26.88

[Yabs]

Interesting, Yabs. I wonder if this one also has blank pages at the end? (Scrapbook II, folks - it'll make a fortune!)

Haha, let’’s keep an eye out for this turning up in the future.
it does say in the item description, 65-70 used pages but many unused and blank pages.