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  • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
    Good grief. It doesn't appear to say "off." It looks like the word "on" with a dark spot on the paper, or an ink smudge at the top of the "n." The ad is saying that a few of the barrels are "on retail," the others evidently being sold wholesale.

    Hope springs eternal, I suppose.
    Yes, Roger, it would seem that you are right. Evidently, the newspaper archive site's OCR software read it (not unreasonably, I have to say) as 'off' and therefore listed it in a search engine as such, but it would appear to be an ink spot causing the confusion.
    Iconoclast
    Soldier of Fortune, Man of Peace, Destroyer of Images, Nice Guy, Genius

    Comment


    • Yep that looks like "one on" with a smudge.

      Comment


      • Ike, doesn't your man Maybrick make one heck of a blunder when writing about the Eddowes' murder? He obsesses about Kate's meager belongings, the 'whore's knife,' the sugar and tea, the infamous tin matchbox empty, etc., then writes (apparently alluding to the pawn ticket):

        Oh, Mr. Abberline he is a clever little man
        he keeps back all that he can.


        I don't recall if you dealt with this before, but one would think that someone this obsessed with Abberline would be aware that Kate died in the City of London Police jurisdiction, and McWilliam would have had charge of the investigation. Abberline would have had bugger-all to do with it, or in "keeping back" a clue. Your reflections, sir?

        At the very least, it would suggest that the author was a second-rate 'Ripperologist'

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
          I don't recall if you dealt with this before, but one would think that someone this obsessed with Abberline...
          Abberline is the only detective mentioned in the Diary, is he not? Perhaps that's because he was the one who got to be played by Michael Caine on telly.
          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
            Ike, doesn't your man Maybrick make one heck of a blunder when writing about the Eddowes' murder? He obsesses about Kate's meager belongings, the 'whore's knife,' the sugar and tea, the infamous tin matchbox empty, etc., then writes (apparently alluding to the pawn ticket):

            Oh, Mr. Abberline he is a clever little man
            he keeps back all that he can.


            I don't recall if you dealt with this before, but one would think that someone this obsessed with Abberline would be aware that Kate died in the City of London Police jurisdiction, and McWilliam would have had charge of the investigation. Abberline would have had bugger-all to do with it, or in "keeping back" a clue. Your reflections, sir?

            At the very least, it would suggest that the author was a second-rate 'Ripperologist'
            You've got two options there, Roger:

            1) The scrapbook is a hoax and the hoaxer homed-in on Abberline for reasons only he or she can accounbt for, or
            2) The scrapbook is the work of Jack the Ripper and he could write anything he wanted to because - he might have argued - he was the original Ripperologist.

            Either way, it's not a point to excite the mind in my book, I'm afraid, old bean.

            Ike
            Iconoclast
            Soldier of Fortune, Man of Peace, Destroyer of Images, Nice Guy, Genius

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
              Ike, doesn't your man Maybrick make one heck of a blunder when writing about the Eddowes' murder? He obsesses about Kate's meager belongings, the 'whore's knife,' the sugar and tea, the infamous tin matchbox empty, etc., then writes (apparently alluding to the pawn ticket):

              Oh, Mr. Abberline he is a clever little man
              he keeps back all that he can.


              I don't recall if you dealt with this before, but one would think that someone this obsessed with Abberline would be aware that Kate died in the City of London Police jurisdiction, and McWilliam would have had charge of the investigation. Abberline would have had bugger-all to do with it, or in "keeping back" a clue. Your reflections, sir?

              At the very least, it would suggest that the author was a second-rate 'Ripperologist'
              I am not a Diary supporter, but it would seem to me that Maybrick would be aware only of police matters via the newspapers and the street chatter; for Maybrick to be able to parse McWilliam (City of London) from Abberline, just days after the Eddows murder, to me, would be suspect. IMO having the murderer fixate on Abberline actually makes more sense, even when it is incorrect. But I am not a Diary supporter.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by APerno View Post
                But I am not a Diary supporter.
                Honestly, APerno, your point is valid whether you are a scrapbook-supporter or detractor. Your rather nervous post is symptomatic of how this Casebook has made people terrified of being 'misunderstood' as pro-Maybrick (which, I suspect, is why we get so few posts arguing for anything that might support Maybrick's case to be Jack - this has improved over recent times but it's definitely an issue, exemplified by your post, I have to say).

                If you have an opinion, just state it. It doesn't need to be qualified in any way.

                Ike
                Iconoclast
                Soldier of Fortune, Man of Peace, Destroyer of Images, Nice Guy, Genius

                Comment


                • Originally posted by APerno View Post

                  I am not a Diary supporter, but it would seem to me that Maybrick would be aware only of police matters via the newspapers and the street chatter; for Maybrick to be able to parse McWilliam (City of London) from Abberline, just days after the Eddows murder, to me, would be suspect.
                  Donald Swanson, Thomas Arnold, Edmund Reid, Sir Robert Anderson and Sir Charles Warren got pretty decent coverage in the press, but none of them are mentioned in the Diary. Sir Charles Warren, whose fame/infamy preceded the Whitechapel Murders, whose resignation was arguably caused by the Ripper and whose name appeared many times in connection with the case, is mentioned but once. In contrast, Michael Caine off the telly - sorry! - Abberline gets seventeen mentions that I've counted, and it may be higher.

                  Abberline's profile rose significantly in the latter half of the 20th Century. He was particularly prominent in B-movies and TV dramatisations, perhaps providing an almost romantic Holmesian figure for the audience to focus on. Abberline was certainly an important player in the case, but having only read the odd sensationalist book and seen the odd film, I used to be under the impression that he was in charge of the whole operation. That was before I became a ripperologist, and I know now that he was only one among many.
                  Last edited by Sam Flynn; 08-31-2019, 08:04 PM.
                  Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                  "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                    Donald Swanson, Thomas Arnold, Edmund Reid and Sir Robert Anderson and Sir Charles Warren got pretty decent coverage in the press, but none of them are mentioned in the Diary. Sir Charles Warren, whose fame/infamy preceded the Whitechapel Murders, whose resignation was arguably caused by the Ripper and whose name appeared many times in connection with the case, is mentioned but once. In contrast, Michael Caine off the telly - sorry! - Abberline gets seventeen mentions that I've counted, and it may be higher.

                    Abberline's profile rose significantly in the latter half of the 20th Century. He was particularly prominent in B-movies and TV dramatisations, perhaps providing an almost romantic Holmesian figure for the audience to focus on. Abberline was certainly an important player in the case, but having only read the odd sensationalist book and seen the odd film, I used to be under the impression that he was in charge of the whole operation. That was before I became a ripperologist, and I know now that he was only one among many.

                    Hello, Sam. hope you're well!

                    As far as ranking goes where would Abberline appear?


                    I've forgotten the importance of his name appearing so much..

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Kaz View Post

                      Hello, Sam. hope you're well!

                      As far as ranking goes where would Abberline appear?
                      Hello Kaz

                      The overall head of H Division (Whitechapel) was Superintendent Thomas Arnold. Chief Inspector Donald Swanson was appointed to take charge of the Ripper enquiry on the ground. Inspector Edmund Reid was head of H Division CID, and both he and Inspector Abberline reported to Swanson.
                      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                      Comment


                      • On the weekend of Polly Nichols’ murder, two of H Division's senior officers, Superintendent Thomas Arnold and Local Inspector [CID] Edmund Reid, began their annual leave, which gives us a fairly good indication of the importance attached to Polly Nichols’ murder [which actually took place in the adjacent J Division].

                        Abberline was brought in as a result of their temporary absence.
                        Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

                        Comment


                        • The Diarist doesn't start ranting about Abberline until after the Chapman murder. Abberline was at the Chapman inquest, admittedly, but so were Helson, Thicke, and Badham, and it was Inspector Chandler, and not Abberline, who spoke at length. There's not a heck of a lot in the contemporary coverage that would jettison Fred Abberline to the forefront. As Gareth states, his prominence rose in the latter half of the 20th Century, with Donald McCormick, the MEPO files opening up, and the Michael Caine mini-series. Edwin Woodhull (1937) doesn't even mention Abberline in that masterpiece of accuracy, truth, and insight, When London Walked in Terror, though he does mention Warren, Macnaghten, Henderson, and Swanson. But, as Ike rightly states, one shouldn't "excite the mind" too much in thinking about such matters.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                            On the weekend of Polly Nichols’ murder, two of H Division's senior officers, Superintendent Thomas Arnold and Local Inspector [CID] Edmund Reid, began their annual leave, which gives us a fairly good indication of the importance attached to Polly Nichols’ murder [which actually took place in the adjacent J Division].

                            Abberline was brought in as a result of their temporary absence.

                            As to say the murder was not deemed important?

                            CW usually claims Abberline was brought back because of his familiarity with the ground and people, i.e. he would have been brought back regardless of need.

                            Comment


                            • Hi Aperno,

                              Would Abberline have been sent back to H Division had Arnold and Reid not been on vacation?

                              Regards,

                              Simon
                              Last edited by Simon Wood; 09-01-2019, 05:06 AM.
                              Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                                Hi Aperno,

                                Would Abberline have been sent back to H Division had Arnold and Reid not been on vacation?

                                Regards,

                                Simon
                                Don't ask me, tell me! My post was in the form of a question because what you suggested seemed to go against the JTR CW I often hear, so I thought you could enlighten me with more insight. (No sarcasm.)

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