Any connection between Israel Lipski Trial and motive for Jack the Ripper?

[Patrick Differ]

This is likely old ground but some observations hit me after reading the trial of Israel Lipsky.
- israel Lipski had the same barrister as Jacob Levy
- both were Jews in a gentile justice system
- both were convicted but claimed innocence
- a Mrs Levy was living in the same house as Lipski and across the hall from the murdered victim
- Mrs Levy and Mrs Lipski the landlady, went to Middlesex Street that morning..for meat?
- this was just 5 months after Jacob Levys release from Essex Asylum.
- Mrs Lipski and Mrs Levy found the body and both thought Israel Lipski was innocent. Who did they know and tell?

Was Mrs Levy related to Jacob and Joseph Hyam Levy? Who was she?

I know there are some big Ifs here but I didn't see any reference to Lipski on the Wiki. ( probably there somewhere)

In any case I thought this might be a connection to the meaning behind the Graffito. Jews being convicted by a gentile justice system ...a motive for murder?

Did Jacob Levy relive his own ordeal with the trial of Israel Lipski. The Ripper likely enjoyed humiliating Authority.

All comments and thought welcome!

[erobitha]

I believe the famous Lipski slur that allegedly Israel Schwartz claimed he heard (although he could not speak English) was invented by the fake witness statement the so-called "Schwartz" gave. A young Jewish Austrian woman was brutally "outraged" by a group of men near Ellen Street, but her assaulters evaded justice. Her name? Schwartz.

I have a feeling the Jewish community may have felt they were not being treated fairly or rightly on many occasions. The murder outside 40 Berner Street was most likely the final straw for one or two "activists". They wanted the public and police's attention to be diverted away from the Jewish community, especially after the whole debacle surrounding John Pizer.

We have a star witness that can't be traced whose version of events fails to corroborate with any other eyewitness statements, with the name Israel Schwartz and claims one of the men he saw used a derogatory term against Jews. Suspicious?

Throw the GSG into the mix and there is an interesting discussion here. Were the Jews the men to be blamed for nothing?

[c.d.]

So-called "Schwartz?" And the reason for this moniker?

c.d.

[Patrick Differ]

Would an anglicized Whitechapel Jew use Lipski as a slur if they thought the immigrant wave was also making it harder on them? The anglicized Jew v the immigrant Jew? Or was it a statement and not a slur...Justice for Lipski.
I find the Stride murder location and Lipski location possibly connected to the Grafitto. What did the Jews do that they could actually be blamed for? Levy claimed he was innocent, and so did Lipski..

[John Wheat]

There's zero evidence Jacob Levy was the Ripper. The only reason he's suspected by anyone is because he's similar to Kosminski in certain respects.

[New Waterloo]

Its an interesting question. I am not sure as to how individual 'players' fit into this. I have to say I fall on the side of Schwarz being genuine in the most part. I do think there could be a connection leading to a 'motive' for JTR although perhaps we shouldn't over think this. What I mean is there could be a sort of unconscious motive (if there is such a thing) at the time of the Stride murder I think we have established that contrary to several reports Berner Street was not a quiet street with not much going on. The club was rowdy, beer houses and pubs had to close early but the club opened late with singing, dancing, consuming alcohol and the odd punch ups and disorder. Perhaps some people were agitated enough to do bad things, blaming Jews, and with the Lipski case adding to the mix.

A good question. Batty street is so close. I think 16 was just down the alley along a bit and on the other side of the road from the club. Yes there is some sort of connection I think.

As for the shouting of the word Lipski I dont think that can ever be resolved other than if an insult well that points to shouter not being a Jew I guess.

NW

[Patrick Differ]

I don't believe Levy was anything like Kosminski other then they were both lunatics. Levy was an expert Butcher as he was a Kosher Butcher. That required extensive training and whoever JTR was he kept his knife sharp ( well ground down). Kosminski attacked with scissors? According to the 1881 Census, Levy lived at 11 Fieldgate Street which is in close proximity to Kosminskis residence at Greenfield, the Stride and Lipski murders. It is also in fairly close proximity to Bucks Row.
Whoever JTR was they really knew these streets and locations. Makes you wonder if while at Fieldgate St, Levy got his haircut from Kosmonski. ( Sad attempt at humor)

[John Wheat]

I don't believe Levy was anything like Kosminski other then they were both lunatics. Levy was an expert Butcher as he was a Kosher Butcher. That required extensive training and whoever JTR was he kept his knife sharp ( well ground down). Kosminski attacked with scissors? According to the 1881 Census, Levy lived at 11 Fieldgate Street which is in close proximity to Kosminskis residence at Greenfield, the Stride and Lipski murders. It is also in fairly close proximity to Bucks Row.
Whoever JTR was they really knew these streets and locations. Makes you wonder if while at Fieldgate St, Levy got his haircut from Kosmonski. ( Sad attempt at humor)

As I said previously there's no evidence whatsoever that Jacob Levy was the Ripper.

[erobitha]

So-called "Schwartz?" And the reason for this moniker?

c.d.

Until someone can prove the person existed in any real record, I will assume it was a fake name given by someone claiming to be something / someone they were not.

[c.d.]

Until someone can prove the person existed in any real record, I will assume it was a fake name given by someone claiming to be something / someone they were not.

I'm not sure that conclusion automatically follows but to each his own.

c.d.

[Patrick Differ]

While it might be true there is no evidence that Levy was the Ripper, I believe the circumstantial evidence gives him the highest consideration as a suspect. Where he lived, where he grew up, his conviction, his female dominated household, his vice, his skill as a butcher, his relationship with his brother Abraham, his incarceration at Chelmsford and Essex Asylum before the murders, the death of his mother in May 1888 and his relationship to Wentworth St Dwellings. Levy, with his skill as a butcher would know how to bleed out his victim, gut, and be home in less than 15 minutes is a compelling avenue for exploration. No direct evidence certainly.

[erobitha]

I'm not sure that conclusion automatically follows but to each his own.

c.d.

Proving that someone exists doesn't seem logical to you? The person who was interviewed by Abberline cannot be independently identified as Israel Schwartz. I think the logic is pretty good that he may not have been who he said he was.

[John Wheat]

While it might be true there is no evidence that Levy was the Ripper, I believe the circumstantial evidence gives him the highest consideration as a suspect. Where he lived, where he grew up, his conviction, his female dominated household, his vice, his skill as a butcher, his relationship with his brother Abraham, his incarceration at Chelmsford and Essex Asylum before the murders, the death of his mother in May 1888 and his relationship to Wentworth St Dwellings. Levy, with his skill as a butcher would know how to bleed out his victim, gut, and be home in less than 15 minutes is a compelling avenue for exploration. No direct evidence certainly.

I disagree. I think violent murderers such as Bury and Kelly are far better suspects than Levy.

[c.d.]

Proving that someone exists doesn't seem logical to you? The person who was interviewed by Abberline cannot be independently identified as Israel Schwartz. I think the logic is pretty good that he may not have been who he said he was.

Since he spoke with Abberline it is a fair assumption that someone calling himself Schwartz existed. The question would be was that actually his name.

Do we have details of what attempts were made to to identify this individual? Unless we can confirm that there was an effort to identify Schwartz that made the hunt for John Wilkes Booth pale in comparison it seems to me to be too great a leap to conclude he did not give his real name.

c.d.

[Patrick Differ]

I dont disagree with Kelly as a suspect but was he even in Whitechapel? Bury was evidently investigated and discounted. While it does not mean it wasn't them it's not clear how their weight would be greater than someone actually living there for their entire lives. And if the killer was in fact Jewish.