Any connection between Israel Lipski Trial and motive for Jack the Ripper?

[jerryd]

Hi Patrick. I actually have a link on this site I just realized. Search on this site for Marks Rubenstein and the link is there.

[Patrick Differ]

Thanks Jerry...do you know what channel it's under? Cheers

[jerryd]

Hi Patrick

I did some research into Marks Rubenstein, his mother (who lived with the Lipskis) and Phillip and Leah Lipski. The thread is over on jtrforums entitled ‘Marks Rubenstein’ if you want to take a look.

[Patrick Differ]

Was Mrs Leah Levy, Miriam Angel's neighbor across the hall, related to Joseph Hyam Levy and Jacob Levy? And what was the relationship with the Rubinstein family? According to Ancestry it appears she was related by marriage and in fact directly tied to both Levy and Lipski families. More research is needed here but if Jacob Levy were the Ripper then the Batty Street location and murder of Stride and the Lipski slur may have different meaning. Stride had multiple clients cited within the hour before her death next to a Jewish Socialist Club and only a block from where Angel was murdered. Why that location ? Coincidence? Maybe not. Mrs Levy and Mrs Lipski visited Petticoat Lane the morning of the murder. Was it for Kosher and family reasons since there were other butchers closer. Jacob Levy and Israel Lipski had the same useless barrister. Was it Coincidence that Jacob Levys accuser Hyam Sampson originally had his butcher shop for 16 years on Goulston Street and displaced by Wentworth Street buildings where Jacob's mother, sister and brother lived, and where Eddowes apron was found? The names Levy and Lipski are tied to both Stride and Eddowes. That is alot of Coincidence.

[John Wheat]

Hi Patrick,

Welcome to the forum. So little is known about Kelly's whereabouts, it is a surprise to me that he rates so highly with so many people. Bury was investigated and discounted, but still has a following, particularly with the single suspect advocates. While it is currently fashionable to contemplate named suspects, the likelihood is that the perpetrator was an unknown person. If named suspects are to be contemplated, one could do worse than examine the known serial killers, rather than the domestic murderers. The likes of Deeming and Chapman. However, the actual killers were likely to have been Mr Nobodys, the persons that no-one even notices. We are here discussing a fantasy which will not be resolved short of a revolutionary discovery which, of course, will be disputed by all. I wish you all the best in the continuation of the game, what ever the outcome.

Cheers, George

This is just supposition and your opinion George.

[GBinOz]

I dont disagree with Kelly as a suspect but was he even in Whitechapel? Bury was evidently investigated and discounted. While it does not mean it wasn't them it's not clear how their weight would be greater than someone actually living there for their entire lives. And if the killer was in fact Jewish.

Hi Patrick,

Welcome to the forum. So little is known about Kelly's whereabouts, it is a surprise to me that he rates so highly with so many people. Bury was investigated and discounted, but still has a following, particularly with the single suspect advocates. While it is currently fashionable to contemplate named suspects, the likelihood is that the perpetrator was an unknown person. If named suspects are to be contemplated, one could do worse than examine the known serial killers, rather than the domestic murderers. The likes of Deeming and Chapman. However, the actual killers were likely to have been Mr Nobodys, the persons that no-one even notices. We are here discussing a fantasy which will not be resolved short of a revolutionary discovery which, of course, will be disputed by all. I wish you all the best in the continuation of the game, what ever the outcome.

Cheers, George

[John Wheat]

Is there a recommendation on reading about Bury? Would love to read it.

I recommend The Trial of Jack the Ripper by Euan McPherson.

[Lewis C]

Is there a recommendation on reading about Bury? Would love to read it.

Patrick, here's a link to a free online book that contains a chapter each about 11 different Ripper suspects, 2 of which are Bury and Levy, each chapter written by someone that thinks their subject is a reasonable suspect.

https://zoboko.com/book/wdmwex5l/who-was-jack-the-ripper-all-the-suspects-revealed

[Lewis C]

While it might be true there is no evidence that Levy was the Ripper, I believe the circumstantial evidence gives him the highest consideration as a suspect. Where he lived, where he grew up, his conviction, his female dominated household, his vice, his skill as a butcher, his relationship with his brother Abraham, his incarceration at Chelmsford and Essex Asylum before the murders, the death of his mother in May 1888 and his relationship to Wentworth St Dwellings. Levy, with his skill as a butcher would know how to bleed out his victim, gut, and be home in less than 15 minutes is a compelling avenue for exploration. No direct evidence certainly.

I agree with this, and I would add that depending what one considers to count as evidence, it's arguable that there's no evidence that any named suspects was the Ripper. So judging suspects is a matter of looking at what we know about each person, and judging which ones give one a reason to have some suspicion, even if that level of suspicion isn't especially high.

[Patrick Differ]

Is there a recommendation on reading about Bury? Would love to read it.

[John Wheat]

I dont disagree with Kelly as a suspect but was he even in Whitechapel? Bury was evidently investigated and discounted. While it does not mean it wasn't them it's not clear how their weight would be greater than someone actually living there for their entire lives. And if the killer was in fact Jewish.

I suggest you read up on Bury. He's the best suspect there is. Just living in Whitechapel is not an indication of anything. As for being Jewish. I highly doubt the Ripper was Jewish.

[Patrick Differ]

I dont disagree with Kelly as a suspect but was he even in Whitechapel? Bury was evidently investigated and discounted. While it does not mean it wasn't them it's not clear how their weight would be greater than someone actually living there for their entire lives. And if the killer was in fact Jewish.

[c.d.]

Proving that someone exists doesn't seem logical to you? The person who was interviewed by Abberline cannot be independently identified as Israel Schwartz. I think the logic is pretty good that he may not have been who he said he was.

Since he spoke with Abberline it is a fair assumption that someone calling himself Schwartz existed. The question would be was that actually his name.

Do we have details of what attempts were made to to identify this individual? Unless we can confirm that there was an effort to identify Schwartz that made the hunt for John Wilkes Booth pale in comparison it seems to me to be too great a leap to conclude he did not give his real name.

c.d.

[John Wheat]

While it might be true there is no evidence that Levy was the Ripper, I believe the circumstantial evidence gives him the highest consideration as a suspect. Where he lived, where he grew up, his conviction, his female dominated household, his vice, his skill as a butcher, his relationship with his brother Abraham, his incarceration at Chelmsford and Essex Asylum before the murders, the death of his mother in May 1888 and his relationship to Wentworth St Dwellings. Levy, with his skill as a butcher would know how to bleed out his victim, gut, and be home in less than 15 minutes is a compelling avenue for exploration. No direct evidence certainly.

I disagree. I think violent murderers such as Bury and Kelly are far better suspects than Levy.

[erobitha]

I'm not sure that conclusion automatically follows but to each his own.

c.d.

Proving that someone exists doesn't seem logical to you? The person who was interviewed by Abberline cannot be independently identified as Israel Schwartz. I think the logic is pretty good that he may not have been who he said he was.