Charles Lechmere: Prototypical Life of a Serial Killer

[CertainSum1]

You are correct, however, in pointing put that killing en route to work offers a really good chance to con people about just having had the bad luck of running into a murder victim on your way to job.

May I also take the opportunity to point out that you are once again reccomending smarter wiys of doing things on account of a man who - if he was the killer - got away clean with what he did. It is the outcome that counts, Caz, when we decide what is a useful methodology and what is not.

The killer was never identified. Therefore, he could not have done anything 'better' than the way he did, in fact, do it.

[Fisherman]

The killer was never identified. Therefore, he could not have done anything 'better' than the way he did, in fact, do it.

My point precisely. Not Cazīs, though. And to be fair, the point does have a measure of circularity to it. But nevertheless...

[Pierre]

He doesn't seem to have had "a great hatred of women", our boy Lechmere, as was supposedly said of whoever Jack was by one of the police types.

And they were right.

Pierre

[Fisherman]

He doesn't seem to have had "a great hatred of women", our boy Lechmere, as was supposedly said of whoever Jack was by one of the police types.

You are referring, I believe, to Melville MacNaghten, who in his memoranda said that Kosminski was a man of this disposition. He did not, though, say that he predisposed that the Ripper must have been the same. Plus "hatred of women" could well translate into "homosexual" - homosexuals were occasionally described as "womanhaters" at the time.

As for Lechmere not hating women, I would like to know how you reached your conclusion.

[Pcdunn]

You are referring, I believe, to Melville MacNaghten, who in his memoranda said that Kosminski was a man of this disposition. He did not, though, say that he predisposed that the Ripper must have been the same. Plus "hatred of women" could well translate into "homosexual" - homosexuals were occasionally described as "womanhaters" at the time.

As for Lechmere not hating women, I would like to know how you reached your conclusion.

Certainly, Fisherman. I was referring to Lechmere being a married man and raising a large family with his wife. I suppose a homosexual "womanhater" might have married (many did, for appearances' sake), but to actually have sexual congress with a woman at least 13 times (judging from the number of living children), might be a diffculty for one attracted to men.

Leaving that speculation aside, and assuming Lechmere was one of the "respectable" family man serial killers you have mentioned previously, of course I have nothing to support my conclusion. Maybe Lechmere let off steam by killing Unfortunates the way other men play golf or soccer. Or going fishing? Just kidding, sir.

[Fisherman]

Certainly, Fisherman. I was referring to Lechmere being a married man and raising a large family with his wife. I suppose a homosexual "womanhater" might have married (many did, for appearances' sake), but to actually have sexual congress with a woman at least 13 times (judging from the number of living children), might be a diffculty for one attracted to men.

Leaving that speculation aside, and assuming Lechmere was one of the "respectable" family man serial killers you have mentioned previously, of course I have nothing to support my conclusion. Maybe Lechmere let off steam by killing Unfortunates the way other men play golf or soccer. Or going fishing? Just kidding, sir.

Thatīs not a joke in my world - fishing is a way of letting steam off as far as Iīm concerned!

This is a bit tricky. I could say that there are men who live with women and hate them nevertheless. At times, they hate them on account on not being able to live without them, on a sexual level. Just because you have a sexual life with the opposite sex, that does not mean that you need to love all they stand for.

Then again, I think that we should look for the reason that the Ripper killed women on another level than the one represented by a hatred for women. I think something quite different drove him. But I am not ready to disclose the exact nature of this matter as yet.

I did not mean that Lechmere would have been a homosexual - I pointed to how Kosminski, who was said to harbour a great hatred of women by MacNaghten - may have been so.

[wigngown]

Hello Fisherman,
Assuming Lechmere was the Killer, and it may be an impossible question to answer, but do you think he confided in his Family? I've always held the belief that the Killer had the hatred of some other woman in his mind when he murdered those poor unfortunates. It was the only way he could vent his anger.
Best regards.

[Fisherman]

Hello Fisherman,
Assuming Lechmere was the Killer, and it may be an impossible question to answer, but do you think he confided in his Family? I've always held the belief that the Killer had the hatred of some other woman in his mind when he murdered those poor unfortunates. It was the only way he could vent his anger.
Best regards.

No, I donīt think he confided in his family. I think he kept it from them, as suggested by how he told the police that he lived at 22 Doveton Street, whereas he seemingly kept that information from the press.

[CertainSum1]

Lechmere's chaotic family

Has it been stated why Lechmere's daughter was raised by his mother? Was she illegitimate? Then that daughter was married twice and divorced. His mother had 3 marriages, his father left them and started a permanent family with another woman? If this is true, I've heard of many killers who resent their mothers tremendously for what they see as driving their fathers away and bringing in multiple other men.

The family seems far from secure and stable.

[Harry D]

@Fisherman

What makes you think the police didn't check Lechmere out? Do you think the police were such bumbling incompetents that they would've overlooked Lechmere without good cause? You will probably argue that a man like Lechmere didn't conform with the Victorian police's prejudices. In truth, the police were desperate to catch the Ripper and would've explored any avenue that availed them... particularly a man "found with a freshly killed body" who was economical with the truth.

As for those serial killers you named, Gacy was arrested in 1968 for sodomizing a teenage boy, and John Eric Armstrong spent time in a psychiatric ward. So, in hindsight, there were signs that these guys weren't as squeaky clean as you make them out to be. Do you have anything like that on Lechmere? Anything at all?

You'll also notice those serial killers you listed have one thing in common... they were CAUGHT. Sooner or later even the most organised serial killer will slip up, through overconfidence, a subconscious desire to be stopped, or plain carelessness. Not all of them, granted, but more than most. Even Denis Rader, the natural recourse for Lechmerians, was preparing to kill again before he got sloppy, and Rader's MO wasn't similar to our man. He didn't kill with anywhere near the same kind of abandon or ferocity as the Ripper.

The Ripper had an insatiable bloodlust that forced him onto the streets of Whitechapel, butchering women in-between police patrols, but after the murder of Mary Kelly, Lechmere was somehow able to inexplicably turn it off like a faucet and return to his 'normal' life for the next 30+ years until his death. As you are not forthcoming with these other murders you can allegedly link to Lechmere, let's assume that he's responsible for the other Whitechapel murder victims. That would still only leave us with three sporadic murders up until 1891 at the very latest. How could a man who violently murdered five women in ten weeks, two of whom were killed on the same night, suddenly exhibit this level of self-restraint?

[Abby Normal]

@Fisherman

What makes you think the police didn't check Lechmere out? Do you think the police were such bumbling incompetents that they would've overlooked Lechmere without good cause? You will probably argue that a man like Lechmere didn't conform with the Victorian police's prejudices. In truth, the police were desperate to catch the Ripper and would've explored any avenue that availed them... particularly a man "found with a freshly killed body" who was economical with the truth.

As for those serial killers you named, Gacy was arrested in 1968 for sodomizing a teenage boy, and John Eric Armstrong spent time in a psychiatric ward. So, in hindsight, there were signs that these guys weren't as squeaky clean as you make them out to be. Do you have anything like that on Lechmere? Anything at all?

You'll also notice those serial killers you listed have one thing in common... they were CAUGHT. Sooner or later even the most organised serial killer will slip up, through overconfidence, a subconscious desire to be stopped, or plain carelessness. Not all of them, granted, but more than most. Even Denis Rader, the natural recourse for Lechmerians, was preparing to kill again before he got sloppy, and Rader's MO wasn't similar to our man. He didn't kill with anywhere near the same kind of abandon or ferocity as the Ripper.

The Ripper had an insatiable bloodlust that forced him onto the streets of Whitechapel, butchering women in-between police patrols, but after the murder of Mary Kelly, Lechmere was somehow able to inexplicably turn it off like a faucet and return to his 'normal' life for the next 30+ years until his death. As you are not forthcoming with these other murders you can allegedly link to Lechmere, let's assume that he's responsible for the other Whitechapel murder victims. That would still only leave us with three sporadic murders up until 1891 at the very latest. How could a man who violently murdered five women in ten weeks, two of whom were killed on the same night, suddenly exhibit this level of self-restraint?

Hi harryD
I think Fish may be leaning in the direction (as I am) that the ripper and torso man might have been the same, hence murders before and after the ripper murders. obviously a longer killing spree.

I might add its also a myth that serial killers cant just stop other than incarceration, death or moving away. some simply do.

[Harry D]

I might add its also a myth that serial killers cant just stop other than incarceration, death or moving away. some simply do.

Can you name any that come close to the Ripper?

[John Wheat]

Hi harryD
I think Fish may be leaning in the direction (as I am) that the ripper and torso man might have been the same, hence murders before and after the ripper murders. obviously a longer killing spree.

I might add its also a myth that serial killers cant just stop other than incarceration, death or moving away. some simply do.

Yes because the MO's of the Torso Killer and the Ripper are identical. Yeah and plenty of serial killers similar to Jack have gone from being violent serial killers who mutilate post mortem to upstanding citizens.

[Abby Normal]

Can you name any that come close to the Ripper?

rader and kemper off the top of my head. probably a lot of the unsolved ones.

[John Wheat]

rader and kemper off the top of my head. probably a lot of the unsolved ones.

But Kemper stopped because he was caught.