Charles Lechmere: Prototypical Life of a Serial Killer

[rjpalmer]

Pickfords didn't set up an office at 170 Poplar High Street until after 1899.

I don't know if you noticed, but we discussed this on JTR Forums sometime back and Robert Clack determined that Pickford's was at No. 107 Poplar High Street in 1889 which he estimated to be about a 5-minute walk from Clark's Yard.

The House Of Lechmere Channel - Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century (jtrforums.com)

Posts #131-#136.

[Fiver]

Rose Mylett, who has been included by Lechmere's accusers in his list of victims, was murdered in a yard off Poplar High Street.

Lechmere would have had to make a detour south in order to commit that murder.

If Lechmere was capable of setting out in completely the wrong direction on his way to work, then what does that do for his accusers' argument that he committed murders on his regular routes to work?

Pickfords didn't set up an office at 170 Poplar High Street until after 1899.

[Fiver]

Rose Mylett, who has been included by Lechmere's accusers in his list of victims, was murdered in a yard off Poplar High Street.

Lechmere would have had to make a detour south in order to commit that murder.

If Lechmere was capable of setting out in completely the wrong direction on his way to work, then what does that do for his accusers' argument that he committed murders on his regular routes to work?

Only Nichols and Chapman were killed on Lechmere's regular route to work. They were also on Robert Paul's regular route to work. That part of the theory collapses if we ascribe any other victims besides Nichols and Chapman.

[Fiver]

Maryann Street to Haydon Square: 650m. James Street to Haydon Square: 810m. James Street to Broad Street: 1.6km. Doveton Street to Broad Street: 2.1km. Doveton Street to Poplar High Street: 3.2km.

Mark D.

Lechmere's only recorded work location with Pickford's is the Broad Street Station, so where are you getting Haydon Square and Poplar High Street from?

Also, Google Maps puts Broad Street Station to 22 Doveton Street as 1.7 miles. Where do you get the extra .4 miles?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Rose Mylett, who has been included by Lechmere's accusers in his list of victims, was murdered in a yard off Poplar High Street.

Lechmere would have had to make a detour south in order to commit that murder.

If Lechmere was capable of setting out in completely the wrong direction on his way to work, then what does that do for his accusers' argument that he committed murders on his regular routes to work?

[Lewis C]

-- You really don't have a clue, do you?

M.

I'm just following what you said.

[Mark J D]

... then he moved even further away to Poplar High Street.

-- You really don't have a clue, do you?

M.

[Lewis C]

I really do think that I’ve heard it all now. Cross was triggered into becoming a serial killer due to an excessively lengthy walk to work!! (One for Fiver to add to the list) Will this utter insanity ever end? What next? And I love the way you skilfully diagnose Cross as clinically narcissistic. Quite an achievement with a man that died over 100 years ago and for whom we have not a shred of a hint of his mental well-being or character.

Anyone would think that Cross was a remotely believable suspect and not just a witness for whom there isn’t a scintilla of evidence to justify any suspicion.

Yes Herlock, and then it was necessary to hypothesize that the move to Doveton Street was forced on him, because one would think that if walking a longer distance was so traumatic for him, he wouldn't have made the move if he had a choice. But then he moved even further away to Poplar High Street.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi, Christer. Something that has often crossed my mind is the way a clinically narcissistic personality -- hyper-aware of increasing age, and obsessed by the unrealistic idea that he matters, dammit! -- would react to something like an endlessly lengthening walk to work in the wee hours. Maryann Street to Haydon Square: 650m. James Street to Haydon Square: 810m. James Street to Broad Street: 1.6km. Doveton Street to Broad Street: 2.1km. Doveton Street to Poplar High Street: 3.2km. For someone in the grip of, inter alia, narcissistic personality disorder, this is a progression in absolutely the wrong direction. (You will be aware of the speculative elements in the preceding.) We may even hypothesise that the mid-1888 move out to Doveton Street -- an astonishing development, on the face of it! -- was forced on him for some reason, making it even more of a triggering experience for someone with serious personality disorders of the type we imagine.

Bests,

Mark D.

I really do think that I’ve heard it all now. Cross was triggered into becoming a serial killer due to an excessively lengthy walk to work!! (One for Fiver to add to the list) Will this utter insanity ever end? What next? And I love the way you skilfully diagnose Cross as clinically narcissistic. Quite an achievement with a man that died over 100 years ago and for whom we have not a shred of a hint of his mental well-being or character.

Anyone would think that Cross was a remotely believable suspect and not just a witness for whom there isn’t a scintilla of evidence to justify any suspicion.

[Mark J D]

... The lechmerians seem to deny that the murderer stalked prostitutes and claim instead that he just happened upon them.

I think it has always been generally accepted that some stalking must have been involved.

lol.

M.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Hi PI,

I find your post perfectly clear. I don't know what part Mark is having trouble understanding. I'm also trying to figure out what part of it he considers a straw man. My best guess is that he thinks the "stalking prostitutes" part is a straw man, that his view is that Lechmerians don't think that Lechmere stalked prostitutes.

That was my best guess too, Lewis.

As you say, the Lechmerians seem to deny that the murderer stalked prostitutes and claim instead that he just happened upon them.

I think it has always been generally accepted that some stalking must have been involved.

[FrankO]

I am perfectly fine to disagree about this. I would not change a syllable in my take.

I would have been a little disappointed if you would have, I must say, Christer.

[Fiver]

If you'd like to re-write that without the straw-manning and the word-salad, it might be worth responding to. As it is, it doesn't even make proper sense.

M.

Are you sure you responded to the right post? PI's post was concise, easy to understand, and did not state anyone else's position, let alone misrepresent it.

Or do you have some very nonstandard definitions of "word salad" and "straw-manning".

[Fiver]

What I would like to know is how someone who was working 14 to 18 hours per day and lived with his wife and nine children, and presumably had to sleep some time at home, could possibly have found the time to stalk prostitutes.

The very fact that he stands accused of murdering women while on his way to work does seem to suggest that he was remarkably short of time in which to look for victims.

This has been repeatedly pointed out to Fisherman.

Killing on the way to work would leave very little time to look for a victim, mutilate her, and try to clean up. It would mean showing up to work with possible fresh blood on hands and clothing, which would raise questions. But if other people could be avoided, the darkness could hide the blood.

Killing at work would give more flexibility as to when, but would still leave very little time to look for a victim, mutilate her, and try to clean up. It would require leaving the van unattended, which would risk theft and leave a lot of explaining as to why the cart was left unattended. And through the entire remainder of daylight hours, there would be a chance for every customer and maybe passersby to notice fresh, unexplained bloodstains on the killer's hands and clothing.

Killing after work would give several hours to look for a victim, mutilate her, and try to clean up. Lateness returning home could be explained by claiming to have a longer shift. This would also be killing after dark, so if other people could be avoided, the darkness could hide the blood.

Killing in the middle of the night would require getting up and sneaking out without anyone else in the household noticing. There would be no way of avoiding the risk of someone else waking up and noticing their absence, and especially high risk with the youngest not old enough to consistently sleep through the night. It would give several hours to look for a victim, mutilate her, and try to clean up. This would also be killing after dark, so if other people could be avoided, the darkness could hide the blood. Then the killer would have to sneak back into the house undetected. And it would play havoc with his wake-sleep schedule.

To me, killing after work makes the most sense, but that's the only timing that the Lechmerians don't have Him using.

Before work - Nichols, possibly Chapman
During work - Pinchon Street, Probably Chapman
Middle of the night - Tabram, Stride, Eddowes, Kelly.

There is no timing pattern if Lechmere is the killer. He never uses the simplest, safest time period. He repeatedly takes unnecessary risks by seeking out instead of avoiding possible witnesses.

their theory doesn't make any sense.

[Lewis C]

According to Google:


word salad

1. a confused or unintelligible mixture of seemingly random words and phrases, specifically (in psychiatry) as a form of speech indicative of advanced schizophrenia.

I am waiting to see whether anyone agrees with your 'diagnosis', if that is indeed what you really meant.

I think what I wrote is perfectly intelligible and the vast majority of readers will agree with me.

Hi PI,

I find your post perfectly clear. I don't know what part Mark is having trouble understanding. I'm also trying to figure out what part of it he considers a straw man. My best guess is that he thinks the "stalking prostitutes" part is a straw man, that his view is that Lechmerians don't think that Lechmere stalked prostitutes.