Lets get Lechmere off the hook!

[GUT]

Maybe paul & Lechmere knew each other, didn't they walk a similar route?

Except their evidence said otherwise.

[Amanda]

Mmm...

Maybe paul & Lechmere knew each other, didn't they walk a similar route?

Yes, along with 88 other Pickford's workers living in Whitechapel.....

Amanda

[GUT]

Yes, along with 88 other Pickford's workers living in Whitechapel.....

Amanda

But Paul didn't work at Pickford's did he??

[Amanda]

No...

But Paul didn't work at Pickford's did he??

Hi Gut,
No sorry, was referring to Cross/Lechmere.

Just meant there would be dozens of other blokes walking to work at Pickford's along the same or similar route.
Amanda

[David Orsam]

yet Constable Neil saw "a pool of blood" (not strictly true!)

I'm not now sure why I made the comment in parentheses because it is true! "There was a pool of blood where the neck of deceased was lying in Buck's-row" (Evidence of PC Neil, Times 3 Sept 1888).

[John Wheat]

The title of this thread is thoroughly misleading there's nothing to put Lechmere on the hook in the first place.

[Pierre]

A thread in which I would like for people to state what speaks against Lechmere as being the Whitechapel killer.

Here is the perfect opportunity to overwhelm me with good hard evidence that he could not have dun it, inklings why he would be innocent, cleverly thought-out scenarios that must exclude Charles the carman, convictions, expertise, experience - anything that tells us why Charles Allen Lechmere could or would not have been the Ripper.

Once it begins dropping in, I aim to process and list it, and at some stage, I will post the outcome.

It´s a one-in-a-lifetime chance - who would have thought that I would present a thread by such a mouthwatering name...? Go for it and go hard!

Good luck and all the best,
Fisherman

Lechmere saw an unknown policeman with the victim.

[GUT]

The title of this thread is thoroughly misleading there's nothing to put Lechmere on the hook in the first place.

Best post on the thread.

[Pierre]

Best post on the thread.

But there is a hook. The fisherman´s hook.

[Bridewell]

Lechmere saw an unknown policeman with the victim.

Where does he say this?

[Geddy2112]

Apologies, nearing the end of this rather monotonous thread regarding in the main the rights and wrongs of 'oozing.' A lot of quotes pop out to me and have been noted, however this is comedy gold...

What we have is what we have. We should not throw it out. It is evidence, and important evidence at that.

Moreover, what the different "amateurs" (seasoned PC:s all of them) said about the blood is perfectly in line.

So Fisherman you are believing 'seasoned' PCs in relation to blood evidence, something they are NOT qualified to make a judgement on, so in this respect ARE amateurs. However you do NOT believe them in regards telling the time, something they ARE qualified to make a judgement on. Ok gotcha...

[Fiver]

Would Nichols bleed 20-25 minutes after having been cut?

Alice McKenzie did.

Are you still claiming that all three PC:s were mistaken when they said that Nichols was bleeding as they saw her?

You claim that all three policeman were mistaken about the time.

[Geddy2112]

You claim that all three policeman were mistaken about the time.

Yes he is, however he believes them about Lechmere's lying and the blood of course.

***STOP THE PRESS*** there is a new Ripper 'documentary' regarding Lechmere, surely this one will get him off the hook... oh wait a bit it's nearly word for word the Missing Evidence and even uses the same false graphics. The punters love it though... dear me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geqV...nel=DaftMonkey

[Fiver]

It is not guesswork that there is only so much blood in a person, and that that blood WILL leave the body. Nor is it guesswork that blood coagulates and that it starts showing after three minutes, justaboutish.

Lets look at what the witnesses actually said.

"He assisted in removing the body. He noticed blood running from the throat to the gutter. There was only one pool; it was somewhat congealed." - PC Mizen, 3 September 1888 Star

"He fetched Dr. Llewellyn. There was a large quantity of congealed blood on the pavement, near the woman's neck;" - PC Thain, 17 September 1888 Echo

"On the spot where the deceased had been lying was a mass of congealed blood. He should say it was about 6 in. in diameter, and had run towards the gutter." - PC Thain, 18 September 1888 Times.

Both PCs appear to be describing the blood after the body was moved. Neither is describing blood that is just starting to congeal. Thain is clearly describing blood that was not flowing. Thain appeared to believe the blood was a lot more congealed that Mizen did. If Nichols was killed three minutes before Mizen and Thain's observations of the blood, she was killed by PC Neil after he had showed the body to the other two constables.

Here's a study - Phase separation during blood spreading. It used blood pools with a volume about 1/4 of that described by PC Thain and at a temperature over 5 Celsius higher than the conditions in Bucks Row. These smaller blood pools would have clotted a lot slower than you assume. And blood clots more slowly at lower temperatures.

So what can we conclude from the blood evidence? That Nichols was probably murdered around 3:30am, give or take half an hour. PC Neil's testimony gives us a tighter window than that.

[Fiver]

Yes he is, however he believes them about Lechmere's lying and the blood of course.

***STOP THE PRESS*** there is a new Ripper 'documentary' regarding Lechmere, surely this one will get him off the hook... oh wait a bit it's nearly word for word the Missing Evidence and even uses the same false graphics. The punters love it though... dear me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geqV...nel=DaftMonkey

The same false graphics? So they plagiarized the Missing Evidence?