Charles Lechmere interesting link

[Nick Spring]

Interesting link below:

http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/jack_the_ripper_tours_raise_cash_for_bethnal_green_air_raid_shelter_disaster_1_2363168

Cheers

Nick

[Sally]

Yep, there's Ed, showing the public where Crossmere was found leaning over the body. And that, ladies and gents, is how its done. All we need now is suspect book and its a done deal

[Barnaby]

I love the fact that his great great-granddaughter is wearing an Iron Maiden t-shirt! Now I got "Fear of the Dark" in my head!

[Sally]

Well, its a point for historical accuracy anyway - I'm pretty sure Iron Maiden were around in Crossmere's day...

[Lechmere]

That looks like an interesting story

[Roy Corduroy]

Oh dear there's a photo of a lady and the caption:

Ripper suspect Charles Lechmere's great, great-granddaughter, Sue Lechmere, at spot where her ancestor was found with Polly Nichols' body in Buck's Row (Durward St)

Dear Ms. Lechmere, if you are reading this, your great great-grandfather Charles Lechmere was not a suspect in the Ripper case then, and Charles Lechmere is not a suspect in the Ripper case now. He was a witness in one of the murders. If you were given the impression he committed a crime, any crime, I am truly sorry. It appears you got roped into a publicity stunt, which could happen to anyone.

Roy

[Lechmere]

So does this

[Barnaby]

Roy,

I don't think that he was a suspect then but I'm not sure how you can deny that he isn't at least a person of interest now.

And it is probably in the descendant's best financial interests that she "thinks" her great-great grandfather was the Ripper. I wouldn't feel bad for her.

[Lechmere]

The Old Guard aren't comfortable with change.

[Roy Corduroy]

Common sense tells you what happened. A policeman asked Pickfords "Do you have a carman by the name of Charles Cross employed here?"

To which Pickfords replied "Yes we do."

Roy

[Fisherman]

Common sense tells you what happened. A policeman asked Pickfords "Do you have a carman by the name of Charles Cross employed here?"

To which Pickfords replied "Yes we do."

Roy

Does the same common sense tell you that they checked with Pickfords but not with his wife and with the registers?

If so, would Elizabeth Lechmere, née Bostock, have said. "Why yes, thatīs my husband!"

And would the registers have him down as Lechmere/Cross? Or just as Cross? Or - perhaps even - just as Lechmere?

Common sense is sometimes rare, not common.

The best,
Fisherman

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Fish,

Of course police checked to see if Pickfords had a carman by the name Charles Cross employed. Because the man said he was Charles Cross on his way to work in the wee hours at Pickfords, Broad Street, when he found the body of the woman in Buck's Row. The woman identified as Mary Ann 'Polly' Nichols.

That he went by Lechmere at home is beside the point.

Roy

[Fisherman]

Hi Fish,

Of course police checked to see if Pickfords had a carman by the name Charles Cross employed. Because the man said he was Charles Cross on his way to work in the wee hours at Pickfords, Broad Street, when he found the body of the woman in Buck's Row. The woman identified as Mary Ann 'Polly' Nichols.

That he went by Lechmere at home is beside the point.

Roy

The point, Roy, is that the police throughout the investigation had him down as Cross, so it is evident that they never knew he was called Lechmere. Such things go into the protocol.

That suggests that the police did NOT check at Pickfords - or at any other place.

We also - if you had not noticed - have a large heap of examples of what he answered when anybody from any authority asked him his name: Lechmere.

Thatīs as "of course" as this gets. Once the police take an active interest in somebody, checking with the registers will be standard procedure. And in the registers, he was Charles Allen Lechmere.

I donīt think there is much more to discuss about that. Do you?

The best,
Fisherman

[Roy Corduroy]

Oh I think the police did check Pickfords. For a carman named Charles Cross. Which is the name he gave them, so obviously it was the name he used at work. That's why he gave the police that name. Becuase it was the name he used as work. Everyone at Pickfords would know him as Charles Cross. Everyone on his delivery routes would know him as Charles Cross.

If his wife knew him as Charles Lechmere, and if he signed registers as Charles Lechmere, that is beside the point, Fisherman. It has no bearing on the case. On what happened that morning in Buck's Row and his testimony at the inquest into the death of Mary Ann Nichols.

Charles Cross gave a perfectly legitimate reason for his being in Buck's Row at that time when he discovered the body of the murder victim. Common sense tells you police checked with his employer.

The entire 'Lechmere' bit, while an interesting factoid, which I believe a researcher discovered some years ago, has no bearing on the case. His wife surely could care less that Charles Lechmere, her husband, was known as Charles Cross at work and on his route. She had her hands full raising a bunch of kids. Getting them bundled off to school. Charles is not hiding anything from anybody. Not his family, not the police. Nada. Zilch.

Roy

[Fisherman]

Roy Corduroy:

Oh I think the police did check Pickfords. For a carman named Charles Cross. Which is the name he gave them, so obviously it was the name he used at work. That's why he gave the police that name. Becuase it was the name he used as work. Everyone at Pickfords would know him as Charles Cross. Everyone on his delivery routes would know him as Charles Cross.

Eh - you donīt know what name he used at Pickfords. In fact, you have no idea at all. You are instead simply deducting that he could not have lied, on a basis of Matterhorn air.
And itīs wrong.
He could have.

If his wife knew him as Charles Lechmere, and if he signed registers as Charles Lechmere, that is beside the point, Fisherman. It has no bearing on the case. On what happened that morning in Buck's Row and his testimony at the inquest into the death of Mary Ann Nichols.

It has a massive bearing, Iīm afraid. We can all cook up a midget of a theory and then be frightened when asked for a full-grown man instead, but thatīs life, Roy.
If he signed registers as Lechmere - and we KNOW that this was exactly what he did - then the police would, IF they looked into him, have searched the registers as a routine measure. Or do you oppose that? Do you think they asked Pickfords and forgot about the registers?

If the police checked, then we would have Swanson telling us in his report that the carman was named Lechmere (and possibly that he sometimes used the alias Cross, if he ever gave such information - something we know as much about as we do about afterlife. Or less.)

Charles Cross gave a perfectly legitimate reason for his being in Buck's Row at that time when he discovered the body of the murder victim.

Yes, he did. And it was the perfect alibi, as shown by Halse on the streets surrounding Mitre Square.

Common sense tells you police checked with his employer.

Common sense is rare. At times it is totally lacking, and instead replaced with spiteful confidence in baseless musings.
Those who possess common sense would say that a check would entail the registers, and that it is obvious that such a check was never made. So what common sense tells us is that you misinterpret the meaning of it.

The entire 'Lechmere' bit, while an interesting factoid, which I believe a researcher discovered some years ago, has no bearing on the case.

Maybe that will work - if you repeat it a thousand times? Maybe we will all agree that giving a name that is not the name you go by in the registers, and that is not the name you on a regular basis have given to the autorities, is something that has "no bearing on the case"?
Or maybe you have to repeat it five thousand times?
Who knows, it could work for some. Poor sods.

His wife surely could care less that Charles Lechmere, her husband, was known as Charles Cross at work and on his route. She had her hands full raising a bunch of kids. Getting them bundled off to school. Charles is not hiding anything from anybody. Not his family, not the police. Nada. Zilch.

And you are fooling nobody, try as you might.

The best,
Fisherman