Why Cross Was Almost Certainly Innocent

[A P Tomlinson]

Fair enough, and the Lloyd's article is clearly filled with inaccuracies.

- Jeff

I'd also better rephrase that to "...conflict appears between an inquest testimony and a newspaper interview that isn't a report of the actual inquiry..." because otherwise it will undoubtedly be pointed out that the details we have of the inquests have come via... etc...

[JeffHamm]

Sorry Jeff, I should have been clearer, I meant when they were each addressing the inquest.

(Edit to add: Where any conflict appears between an inquest testimony and a newspaper report, I'd generally default to the one where the risk of perjury existed...)

Fair enough, and the Lloyd's article is clearly filled with inaccuracies.

- Jeff

[Geddy2112]

He was allowed to search Pickford's 19th Century records and there was nothing pertaining to individual employees.

So long story short there is zero evidence Charles Lechmere actually worked for Pickfords????

[John Trent]

Despite everything I read about Paul/Cross examining the body of Nicholls I have yet to understand how, when one or the other of them says that they tried (unsuccessfully) to pull down her skirts, that Paul touched her breast and fancied he felt her take a breath. Now, stop me if I'm wrong, but either the clothing was lifted far above the waist for Paul to get hold even of a hem or there was some other reason for him touching the breast(!). All information appears to show the clothing was no further up than mid-thigh. So why was Paul's hand anywhere near a breast? Could it be that Paul was lying? [Please don't go down Fishy's 'agonal gasp' idiocy in any answers but try and stick to the question. Thanks]

[rjpalmer]

According to the Pickfords website - "In 2012, a descendent [sic] of Charles Latchmere [sic] searched the Pickfords archive to find any reference to her relative. No records were found". It's under 1888 in the timeline.

That could mean the records for Cross/Lechmere were lost. It could mean that the records were in the archive, but that his descendant could not find the records. It could mean that only the name Charles Lechmere was searched for and he was employed as Charles Cross.

See the following link, Post #74.

Was Lech known as Cross at Pickfords?? - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums

"Lechmere," is Ed Stow.

He was allowed to search Pickford's 19th Century records and there was nothing pertaining to individual employees.

[Fiver]

How could Lechmere see Paul approaching 40 yards away; when he and Paul BOTH couldn't see Nichols with mortal cuts and her eyes open from less than 2 yards away?

Unless they were both long-sighted, then that doesn't make sense.


RD

Lechmere didn't say he saw Paul at 40 yards. He said he heard him at that distance.

[Fiver]

"Wasn't there a story Lechmere's family got to look at some records and were unable to find their ancestral name in "the records"?"

That's not something I've heard about, where did you read/hear that?

According to the Pickfords website - "In 2012, a descendent [sic] of Charles Latchmere [sic] searched the Pickfords archive to find any reference to her relative. No records were found". It's under 1888 in the timeline.

That could mean the records for Cross/Lechmere were lost. It could mean that the records were in the archive, but that his descendant could not find the records. It could mean that only the name Charles Lechmere was searched for and he was employed as Charles Cross.

[Fiver]

Now it may have been dark, but not as dark as it was in the case of Stride. It was also light enough for Lechmere to notice Nichols in the first place.

After all, he was standing in the road when he saw her, so it couldn't have been that dark.

If it was, he would't have seen her at all from his position.

But we know from his testimony that he drew Paul's attention to the body, meaning he knew that Nichols was there before Paul arrived.

In this instance, the excuse of darkness, is not Lechmere's friend.

We know that Lechmere was walking on the pavement and saw something on the other side of road, then moved into the middle of the road to figure out what it was. We also know that PC Neil needed his lantern to notice that Nichols throat was cut and her eyes were open. Paul and Lechmere were not the only ones to comment on the darkness and the police accepted their account that it was too dark to see the wounds or the blood.

"It was dark at the time, though there was a Street lamp shining at the end of the row." - PC Neil

"It was dark at the time." - Dr Llewellyn

"Witness did not remember waking up until she heard a knock at the front door about 4 o'clock in the morning. She opened the window and saw three or four constables and two or three other men. She saw the body of deceased lying on the ground, but it was still too dark to clearly distinguish what had happened." - Emma Green

"Robert Paul of 30 Foster St., Bethnal Green came up, and Cross called his attention to the woman, but being dark they did not notice any blood, and passed on with the
intention of informing the first constable they met." - Inspector Abberline, police report

" Neither appear to have realised the real condition of the woman, and no injuries were noticed by them; but this, no doubt, is accounted for by the early hour of the morning and the darkness of the spot." - Coroner Baxter

[A P Tomlinson]

None of the early press reports had Lechmere standing by the body. It is a modern concoction by the Lechmerians.

The Lechmerian case is based on their interpretation of a single ambiguous account.

" It was dark, and I was hurrying along, when I saw a man standing where the woman was." - Robert Paul, 2 September 1888 Lloyds Weekly News

In the other accounts, Paul makes it clear that Lechmere was "standing in the middle of the road."

Assisted by a certain documentary showing him crouched over the body as Paul approaches...

[A P Tomlinson]

It's also worth noting that the eyes of animals are much easier to see in the dark because they have what is known as the tapetum lucidum--a layer of tissue behind the retina that reflects light and allows them to see at very low light levels, but also allows us to seem their eyes in the dark.

Cats are famous for it, but other animals have it, too---if they are nocturnal.

Humans don't have it, because we evolved to be more active in the daytime. Human eyes are not particularly reflective of light.

It's why every indoor photo I've ever taken of my dogs makes them all look like evil, soulless Hell Hounds.

[rjpalmer]

PC Neil is the only witness to comment on seeing Nichols' eyes were open. Even he seems to have noted the slit throat first, and he had a lantern. We should also consider that the eyes can open after death.

It's also worth noting that the eyes of animals are much easier to see in the dark because they have what is known as the tapetum lucidum--a layer of tissue behind the retina that reflects light and allows them to see at very low light levels, but also allows us to seem their eyes in the dark.

Cats are famous for it, but other animals have it, too---if they are nocturnal.

Humans don't have it, because we evolved to be more active in the daytime. Human eyes are not particularly reflective of light.

[Fiver]

Some may of course disagree, but seeing as Nichols eyes were open, and 2 of them both got close to her to examine her; with at least one of them physically touching her, then it becomes rather odd as to why neither of them could see she was dead, or at the very very least, dying.

PC Neil is the only witness to comment on seeing Nichols' eyes were open. Even he seems to have noted the slit throat first, and he had a lantern. We should also consider that the eyes can open after death.

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi RD,


But there's no report that suggests that either Cross/Lechmere or Paul noticed the state of her eyes. Given they didn't notice her throat had been cut to the spine, I think it's not a stretch to indicate that the reason they don't mention her eyes as being open is probably because they didn't take note of that fact either.

Which sort of suggests that they did not know she was dead at that time, doesn't it?

They never said they touched her, so what would compel them to add that later apart from being questioned (either by a reporter or the police) about everything they did and so mentioning things that, at the time, they considered inconsequential? If they thought she was probably just passed out drunk at the time they were talking to PC Mizen, then their very brief examination would be viewed by them as mentioning an irrelevant detail.

Sure, but we have all the information now, and we now know those early reports are not correct, which is fairly typical of the earliest news stories. It takes time for the facts to get determined, so many such details change from the less reliable initial coverage. The same occurs today, not just in 1888.

The location was quite dark. Remember, Cross/Lechmere couldn't even make out it was a person until he got half way across the street. They also didn't see that her throat was cut, or that there was blood on the ground beside her. It is how little they noticed that indicates to me their "examination" of her was very brief, in the order of a few (10ish maybe?) seconds - just long enough to pull her dress down and maybe touch her arm or face, and it was during that when Paul brushed against her and thought he may have noted her breathing. I suspect most of the time they were there, which was not long, was spent in discussion of what to do, rather than actually doing anything (i.e. Paul suggesting let's sit her up, etc and Cross/Lechmere saying no.)

Again, this to me is just another indication that it is unlikely they actually thought she was dead at that time.

Because they didn't think she was dead, but just drunk and in need of assistance. As rj points out, attitudes towards street woman was not positive, so while they probably felt they should alert the police, they clearly weren't going to raise a fuss over it. They do later, when the find out she had been murdered, but at the time they are acting like two men who think she's just passed out.

Given he did not examine Tabram, he would not have known if her eyes were open or closed, so that point doesn't count. Also, there is nothing to indicate that either Cross/Lechmere or Paul noticed one way or the other Nichol's eyes.

Again, there's no indication that Cross/Lechmere or Paul took note of her eyes, so the fact they were open doesn't matter if they didn't notice that. They didn't notice her throat had been cut either, but it was, and PC Neil noted that too.
But it wouldn't be uncommon to see people sleeping rough in the general area. Perhaps, though, if Buck's Row was uncommon to have rough sleepers, that is partly why Cross/Lechmere and Paul chose to have a brief look.

We only get them saying they thought she was outraged after they had heard of the murder. Their actions at the time, combined with PC Mizen's inaction, suggests that was not something mentioned at the time.
(and I think you mean ... why did neither of them see ANY of her wounds?). I have been suggesting they didn't see them because it was dark and they spent very little actual time examining her.

Actually, it makes their reaction entirely expected provided they are not of the belief she is dead, which is what I'm suggesting. That at the time they spoke to PC Mizen, their belief was that she was passed out, and in all probability, because she was drunk. The idea that she had been "outraged" or "was dead", might have been something they thought had a remote possibility at the time, but not one they appear to have seriously entertained at the time. However, once they hear she was murdered, and violently so, those thoughts become amplified and their memory of what they believed at the time changes. That is not uncommon.

When he first noticed her, he thought she was a piece of tarpaulin. It's not until he gets half way across the street that he can make out it was a person. PC Neil only notices the blood when he shines his lantern on her.

The darkness would make the blood hard to see, and failing to notice her throat was cut to the spine tells us they didn't examine her closely, or for long. Similar to how we know Llewellyn did a very cursory examination at the scene given he didn't know her abdomen had also been attacked.


In the end, everything you've mentioned points to Cross/Lechmere and Paul spent a very brief time with Nichols and left her believing she was drunk and passed out. They may have had some slight concerns it may have been something more serious, but if so they appear to consider that as being far less likely. As such, they would feel no need to rush around looking for the police, but would send her assistance if they came across a PC. If they truly thought she was dead, they would be more apt to respond as others who found a body and recognized the person had been murdered. Their actions point to them having beliefs that are different from what they later say after hearing that she had been murdered. Such changes are not uncommon, and I've just been suggesting that we can evaluate their beliefs at the time by a careful examination of their actions at the time. And to me, their actions point to two men who did not realise or believe she was dead when they left her, but rather thought she was sleeping off a drunk.

It's just an interpretation, of course, not a fact. But I think it is an interpretation that fits the facts as we have them.

- Jeff

I still think it is unbelievable how 2 men couldn't see her eyes were open from such close proximity.

Also, by stating that they helped with her clothing and Paul brushed past her etc...that is evident of at least one of them being close enough to tell if her eyes were open.

As a natural human reaction to see if another human is in distress, what are the things we look for instinctively to alert us?

We check for signs of breathing, both audible and visual
We check for signs of response, any kind of response to an audible or visual command/prompt
We check the eyes, to see if the person is responsive optically, i.e. looking at us, moving their eyes in response to us, alertness through their eyes and facial movements.

I think that the justifiable reason why they didn't notice the eyes, is because they did notice she was staring into space and unresponsive, and knew she was dead.

And then upon realizing she was dead, they walked off...

So...

Perhaps the conversation went a little like this...




L - "Is she dead?"

P - "I'm not sure, let's check her"

L - "No, I'm not going to touch her"

P - "Why not?"

L - "I just don't think we should, just in case we get into trouble"

P - "Oh, but you're fine with me doing it though"

L - "Well, I just wasn't sure what to do"

P - "But it was you who called me over in the first place"

L - "Yeah, to help check her for me instead"

Paul doesn't respond

P - "have you not checked her yet then?"

L - "No, I only just noticed her, i thought she was some tarpaulin at first. I couldn't make out what it was until I got a bit closer"

P - "Yeah, I can see how you could miss her lying here like this, what with it being such a wide street an'all"

L - "And it's dark"

P - "Yeah... I guess it is...you did give me a fright when i saw you standing in the middle of the road like that"

L - "So, you saw me then?"

P - "Yeah, of course I did"

L - "What, even in the darkness?"

P - "Well, it's not that dark really is it? I've seen darker"

L - "Where?"

P - "Dutfield's yard...pitch black that place. You should try it out sometime"

L - "Oh, I know that area fairly well as it happens; my mother lives just around the corner"

P - "Nice"

pause

L - " I didn't mean to scare you by the way old chap"

P - "Not to worry dear fellow, at least you weren't closer to her when I first saw you"

Paul laughs

Lech ignores Paul

(Pinter style silence)

L - "Looks like she's been outraged"

P- "yeah, I agree"

moves clothes out of dignity

P - "Hey, wait a moment, I think she might be breathing!"

L - "Really? How can you tell?"

P - "I just brushed past her and thought I felt some movement"

L - "What should we do?"

P - "Let's call for help"

L - "No"

P - "What do you mean, No?!"

L - "i think we should go find a Policeman first"

P - "Yeah, you're right, best not to wake the neighbours eh?!

L - "Yeah, exactly"

P - "Good, let's split up!"

L - "No"

P - "No again? Why not split up?"

L - "I think we should stick together"

P - "Why's that?"

L - " It will look better if we go together"

P - "Oh right...I see what you mean"

L - "Plus I am late for work"

P - "Yeah, me too"

L - " I left late this morning...of all the days eh?"

P - " I know, what are the chances?"

Lech doesn't respond

L - "Are you sure she might still be alive?"

They both look at her together

P - "Well if she was...she isn't now!"

L - "What do you mean?"

P - " Well, look at her eyes"

L - "What about her eyes?"

P -"They're open"

L - "And?..."

P - "Well, unless she is an eye-staring contest champion, she has been staring up at that roof for ages"

L - "How can you tell, I can't see her eyes, are you sure they're open?"

P - "Are you longsighted by any chance?"

They both look closer

Both look at each other in unison

Both - "Yeah, she's a goner alright"

L - "So, what are we going to do now?"

P - "Let's go find that policeman"

L - "Yes, I agree, let's go!"

P - "Hold on...wait a minute..."

L - "What is it?"

P - " Well, seeing as she's dead...and we are late for work..."

L - "I don't quite follow you"

P - "Let's just go..and IF we bump into a copper...then we will just tell him he's needed in Bucks Row"

L - " Great idea!"

P - "Good, let's go!"

Paul goes to walk WEST

L - "No, let's go this way!"

Gestures East

P - "But my work is in that direction"

L - "So is mine..I work at Pickfords"

P - "Ah do you, my mate has another mate who's brother's cousin works there"

L - "Really, what's his name?"

P - "Charlie Cross"

Lech doesn't respond

P - "Do you know him?"

L - "Can't say I do"

P - " Well, anyway, we've been here for 7 minutes talking now, we should move along before anyone thinks we did it!"

L - "Can you imagine?!"

they both laugh and then walk EAST, away from their work


Despite being on their way to work


And the rest is history as they say.



So, there you have it...

The moral of the story is...

If you think a woman has been raped or murdered and is unresponsive, then please call for help by any means possible and with as much urgency as possible.


Here endeth the lesson Mr Paul and Mr Lechmere



RD

[Fiver]

Interestingly there were a couple of very early press reports they had Paul find Lechmere standing by the body, but that was obviously changed officially at the inquest and in statements to the police to reflect that Lechmere was instead seen standing in the middle of the road.

The idea that Lechmere was reported as having been seen standing by the body is NOT a modern concoction created by Lechmerianists, it was in the press at the time also.

None of the early press reports had Lechmere standing by the body. It is a modern concoction by the Lechmerians.

The Lechmerian case is based on their interpretation of a single ambiguous account.

" It was dark, and I was hurrying along, when I saw a man standing where the woman was." - Robert Paul, 2 September 1888 Lloyds Weekly News

In the other accounts, Paul makes it clear that Lechmere was "standing in the middle of the road."

[Sam Flynn]

How could Lechmere see Paul approaching 40 yards away; when he and Paul BOTH couldn't see Nichols with mortal cuts and her eyes open from less than 2 yards away?

Much easier to see (and hear) a 5-foot-something man lumbering towards you, silhouetted against what light there was, than to notice dark red blood in a dark street, especially against dark clothing. Even when wide open and in broad daylight, the eyes are a small target - a mere 2cm across - and if they were only partially open, they'd be an even more difficult to notice, especially in the dark. As for the mortal cuts, even Dr Llewellyn - a trained medical practitioner - had to wait until he was at the mortuary before noticing that Polly had practically been decapitated and her guts were bulging out.