The Chapman murder and Charles Lechmere

[GUT]

G'Day MrB

Why do you assume I'm antipodean?

GUT

[MrBarnett]

Hi Moonb,

The time to start worrying is when your wife puts on an apron!

MrB.

[MrBarnett]

G'Day GUT,

Charles Lechmere was not a Spitalfields indigent, spending a night at at a time at whichever lodging house would accept him and using a new name whenever the old one became inconvenient.

He held down the same job for decades and lived in a handful of places in that time. The existing records show he religiously recorded his name as Lechmere throughout his adult life, so the use of Cross is seen as something of an anomaly.

Regards,

MrB

p.s. I'm enjoying your antipodean frankness.

[GUT]

G'Day Moonbegger

A wife who uses two names and is good with a knife, maybe Conan Doyle was right and it was Jill the Ripper

G.U.T.

[moonbegger]

Hello Mr B ,

To turn the question on it's head, what did the residents of Doveton Street think on hearing that a Charles Cross of 22, Doveton Street, Pickford's carman, had been found next to a freshly mutilated body? I know his wife was illiterate, but surely the doorstep gossip would have focussed on each atrocity as it occurred and when one of their neighbours was directly involved she would have heard of it, so there's no way he used Cross to hide his involvement from the Mrs. either. And again it would be time to ring 999,

Yes , I think this is the catch 22 element as far as the name change goes .. you cant have it both ways ! Someone from either work or a neighbor would raise a red flag at some point . Unless of course , folk at both work , as well as neighbors , were all too aware of his two name history ( those that knew him that is ) .

Here's the thing Mr B .. If you have One TV , One phone , One Car , One Bank account , You tend to use One .. But if you are fortunate enough to have Two TV's , Two phones , Two Cars , Two Bank accounts , you Will tend to use them both ! sometimes even at the same time . My wife uses her name in some circumstances .. and my name in other circumstances .. Holy cow !! she is also pretty handy with a knife

Cheers

moonbegger

[GUT]

G'Day Sleekviper

Which is why the deed poll becomes important; he can not call himself anything but the name he would have registered, which would then be his legal name.

How then I ask do we have so many names for the victims?

G.U.T.

[MrBarnett]

Hi Moonbegger,

Thanks for that. I have been an intermittent visitor to Casebook over the years and have probably missed a lot of interesting stuff.

To turn the question on it's head, what did the residents of Doveton Street think on hearing that a Charles Cross of 22, Doveton Street, Pickford's carman, had been found next to a freshly mutilated body? I know his wife was illiterate, but surely the doorstep gossip would have focussed on each atrocity as it occurred and when one of their neighbours was directly involved she would have heard of it, so there's no way he used Cross to hide his involvement from the Mrs. either. And again it would be time to ring 999, unless the neighbours also were aware of the Cross connection. (Apologies if this, too, has already been beaten to death.).

For what it's worth, my opinion is that the most likely reason for his use of the name Cross is simply: that was how he was known at Pickford’s and he assumed (hoped) that was where any enquires would be made. Even an innocent man wouldn't want the police knocking at his door.

The only other reason I find remotely credible is that he feared there was someone who might recognize the name Lechmere (but not the addresses) and who had some experience of his violence or misogyny and might connect the dots.

MrB

[moonbegger]

If rogue soldiers, or a gang are killing along, or close to, the route that I have to walk to reach work everyday, what is my motivation to be any type witness? I would have to figure that if they know me, where I will be at some point and time due to finding the body, and if they want to tie up loose ends, I could be next. I would find it more odd if he did give them all that is needed to find him without question. Of course that is just me.

I don't think your alone on that one Sleek !

Mr B ,

One other point that hasn’t been raised as far as I know: if Charles wasn’t known as Cross at Pickfords, what did his workmates and superiors make of the claim that he worked there. This was big news, surely everyone at Pickfords had read or heard about it. I ask you, what would your response be if a body was found a few streets away from where you work by someone claiming to be a co-worker and nobody in the company had ever heard of him? My answer is, dial 999!

Hello Mr B , I think we did beat that one to death a couple of years back , but it still remains a valid , and one of many so far unsatisfactorily answered questions .

cheers

moonbegger

[MrBarnett]

Hi,

One thing we can be sure of is that, unless Charles was a complete numpty, the use of the name Cross was not intended to hide his identity from the authorities. Because although he provided them with an incorrect surname he also gave them his correct forenames, occupation, employer, work address, and home address. More than enough for anyone to track him down.

And he must have known that some, if not all, of that information would appear in the press. So if the High Rip boys had really wanted to find him they could have done so quite easily.

One other point that hasn’t been raised as far as I know: if Charles wasn’t known as Cross at Pickfords, what did his workmates and superiors make of the claim that he worked there. This was big news, surely everyone at Pickfords had read or heard about it. I ask you, what would your response be if a body was found a few streets away from where you work by someone claiming to be a co-worker and nobody in the company had ever heard of him? My answer is, dial 999!

MrB

( I still like Lech. as a suspect, I'm just not convinced that the name has any significance)

[Lechmere]

A deed poll merely registers a new name for use on official documents where you have to produce your birth certificate for example to prove who you are, to get a passport for example.
I don't think it has any bearing on this case.
No other witness gave a false name to escape being attacked by the culprit.
In his evidence Lechmere said he saw nothing.

[sleekviper]

Which is why the deed poll becomes important; he can not call himself anything but the name he would have registered, which would then be his legal name. This was a whole different world to now; a nine year old child could work a sixteen hour day, so if something falls within his legal right it will be hard to find fault. If rogue soldiers, or a gang are killing along, or close to, the route that I have to walk to reach work everyday, what is my motivation to be any type witness? I would have to figure that if they know me, where I will be at some point and time due to finding the body, and if they want to tie up loose ends, I could be next. I would find it more odd if he did give them all that is needed to find him without question. Of course that is just me.

[Lechmere]

Anyone can call themselves whatever they wish at any time.
The term 'legal name' is a bit of a misnomer.
What we can say is that Charles Lechmere chose to call himself Lechmere - his given names at birth - on every single recorded instance when he gave his surname, apart from when he was involved in the Nichols murder investigation.

[sleekviper]

Without the deed poll, he can call himself what he likes.

[MrBarnett]

Here is an example of a certificate of baptism that looks very much like a birth certificate. The fact that it is franked suggests it has some legal significance.

http://www.freewebs.com/baildonfamilysite/EDITH%20ALICE%20BAILDON%20nee%20PREST%20DoB%2029.4.1887%20BAPTISM%20CERTIFICATE_edited.jpg

[Lechmere]

He isn't in any deed poll