Evidence of innocence

[Fiver]

He was buried in a ‘pauper’s’ grave, wasn’t he? And the memorial card would most likely have been one chosen from the funeral director’s brochure. He left more than enough money for them to have buried him privately, but they chose not to.

Just like they chose to bury his wife in a pauper's grave when she died 20 years later.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I'm not an advocate the Lechmere theory, but if you poke around you'll find threads by Edward 'Stow' and Gary Barnett and others explaining why they believe this is the same bloke.

In a nutshell, Lechmere's father was a shoemaker in Hereford who vanished from the city following a local scandal, and after wards this John Lechmere, also listed as a shoemaker and bootmaker, giving his birthplace as Fawnhope, Herefordshire in the 1861 and 1871 census returns, turns up in Daventry, which was a well-known center of shoemaking. There are other reasons, but this is the main thrust of their argument. Yes, there are some minor differences in birth year, etc., but these are rather commonplace in such records.

Is it your contention that they have made a misidentification?

Since you mention Edward Stow, you should know that we had some exchanges about his allegations of bigamy against Maria Lechmere.

I have a copy of the complete exchange and it is still viewable online.

He misunderstood the relevant seven-year law - that was in force at that time - as requiring the abandoned spouse to have known that the absent spouse was dead.

I quoted him the relevant part of that law, which required that the abandoned spouse not know that the absent spouse was alive.

I pointed out to him that there is a difference.

He did not dispute the accuracy of my quotation from the law.

We had some further exchanges about the bigamy allegations and the Whitechapel Murders, during which he repeatedly said that I am ignorant.

Finally, he accused me of having omitted reference to the death of the absent spouse in that law and accused me of having done so 'either out of ignorance or maliciously.'

I think genuine and civil investigators who are not aware of what kind of person Edward Stow is should know, just in case they ever have the misfortune to encounter him.

[Fiver]

Anyone wishing to investigate the alleged misogynistic ‘Lechmerian’ blackening of Maria Louisa Roulson’s character might like to start here:

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/moti...ld-ma-lechmere

And don’t neglect to follow the link to the Lechmere Trivia thread.

If anyone finds anything to support the accusation that those dastardly Lechmerians have described Maria as a ‘hussy’ who couldn’t ‘keep her knees together’ and had a sexual relationship with George Blencowe, let me know.

No need to go to another forum, there's plenty of evidence just in this thread. Of course, they don't state it as facts, they suggest and imply in a failed attempt at plausible deniability.

[Paddy Goose]

'A murderous husband and psycho dad,
His like on earth was never had ;
Thank Christ in hell he'll roast for ever,
In flames kept fanned by sleuths so clever.'

Nise poem, thank you Caz

Just when I thought the thread couldn't get any better.

[caz]

Cheers, Paddy!

I do try.

Some say I'm very trying.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Hi Caz,

I believe he was just responding to someone suggesting that the fact that CAL’s 6-year-old daughter was living with her grandparents (both of them) in 1881 was somehow evidence that all was tickety boo in the family. The daughter was still living with her grandmother in 1891 and 1901, it looks like she never went back to her parents.

People often found/find it hard to speak ill of the dead, however disgracefully they behaved in life. I’m reminded of the fact that Eamon de Valera, the Irish prime minister, signed Hitler’s book of condolence.

Who chose the poem? His wife? One of his children? The undertaker?

Love,

Gazz X

Hi Gary, or would you prefer Gazz?

I'm sorry my little attempt to lighten the mood fell flat. I'll leave everyone shortly to carry on the serious business of proposing or opposing Lechmere's guilt.

Much as I enjoyed Roger's illustrated lecture on bog-standard funeral fare, I didn't seriously imagine the surviving Lechmeres gathered round the kitchen table trying out their own funny little rhymes when the old man kicked the bucket.

I assumed the poem was selected [by them or for them, I wasn't fussed] from a collection of sober verses, as befitting the situation.

Thus, Lechmere's would naturally have come under the subheading of:

The Family Man -

Flawed like the rest,
From imperfect best
To the likes of Fred West.

I am aware of a natural reluctance to speak ill of the dead, although there is precious little reluctance in some quarters to see the very worst in Lechmere.

Elsewhere, Hallie Rubenhold also speaks ill of the dead, but in her case it's all the dead Victorian women who serviced men in order to eat the next day. She does this by implying that the ripper preferred his prey to be 'better than that' and merely catching up on their beauty sleep after a long day doing charitable work for thruppence.

Using the example of Hitler, alongside all the men who have behaved disgracefully in life, left me with an image of a young Adolf doing a poo on teacher's desk. So moving on in the collection of verse, I adapted this one for the old devil under the subheading of:

All Other Men -

Mr H was, in truth, a bit of a disgrace,
Doing the odd poo in a peculiar place.
A family man, one could hardly call
This last-minute bridegroom with only one ball.

[I'm here all week - only joking.]

Love,

Caz
X

[MrBarnett]

Just like they chose to bury his wife in a pauper's grave when she died 20 years later.

Yes, during the blitz wasn’t it, before Elizabeth’s will had been proved? Assuming she had anything to leave to her brood. I’ll look it up and let you know.

[MrBarnett]

Hi Gary, or would you prefer Gazz?

I'm sorry my little attempt to lighten the mood fell flat. I'll leave everyone shortly to carry on the serious business of proposing or opposing Lechmere's guilt.

Much as I enjoyed Roger's illustrated lecture on bog-standard funeral fare, I didn't seriously imagine the surviving Lechmeres gathered round the kitchen table trying out their own funny little rhymes when the old man kicked the bucket.

I assumed the poem was selected [by them or for them, I wasn't fussed] from a collection of sober verses, as befitting the situation.

Thus, Lechmere's would naturally have come under the subheading of:

The Family Man -

Flawed like the rest,
From imperfect best
To the likes of Fred West.

I am aware of a natural reluctance to speak ill of the dead, although there is precious little reluctance in some quarters to see the very worst in Lechmere.

Elsewhere, Hallie Rubenhold also speaks ill of the dead, but in her case it's all the dead Victorian women who serviced men in order to eat the next day. She does this by implying that the ripper preferred his prey to be 'better than that' and merely catching up on their beauty sleep after a long day doing charitable work for thruppence.

Using the example of Hitler, alongside all the men who have behaved disgracefully in life, left me with an image of a young Adolf doing a poo on teacher's desk. So moving on in the collection of verse, I adapted this one for the old devil under the subheading of:

All Other Men -

Mr H was, in truth, a bit of a disgrace,
Doing the odd poo in a peculiar place.
A family man, one could hardly call
This last-minute bridegroom with only one ball.

[I'm here all week - only joking.]

Love,

Caz
X

My real name is Gary, but I am known to some as Gazz. When I run over small children or find dead prostitutes in the street I use another name altogether.

Funny you should mention Hallie, I bet she approves of the false accusations of misogyny flying around on this thread.

‘Ah, so you think Maria’s relationship with Tommy might not have gone down well in Victorian Hereford, do you? That means you you consider her a hussy who couldn’t keep her knees together!’

’Hallie! Hallie! You were right all along - they really do hate women.’

[MrBarnett]

No need to go to another forum, there's plenty of evidence just in this thread. Of course, they don't state it as facts, they suggest and imply in a failed attempt at plausible deniability.

Can you direct me to the post where ‘they’ suggest Maria was having a fling with Blencowe.

[MrBarnett]

Can you direct me to the post where ‘they’ suggest Maria was having a fling with Blencowe.

I recall being intrigued by the George Blencowe who we found had been living with Maria when the 1871 census was taken:


Harriet

I believe Harriet married a William Blencowe in Marylebone in 1835.

Interestingly, the 1871 census shows a 23-year-old carman living with Maria as a boarder. His name was George Blencowe.

Even more interesting is that a George Blencowe of Brick Lane was admitted to the Whitechapel Infirmary on 27/5/87 suffering from 'vertigo'. He was discharged on 9/6/1887 only to be readmitted on 17/6/87 suffering from 'mania'. He was sent to Grove House (which I think was probably Grove Hall lunatic asylum in Bow) on 1/7/87.

The age of this GB is a few years adrift from that of the carman, but Blencowe is not a very common name. So it could be that CAL had a mad carman as some kind* of cousin.

*I don't think he was Harriet's child, possibly her nephew - or stepson?

Harriet here was one of Maria’s sisters. When I spoke of George possibly being some kind cousin of CAL’s, innocent that I am, I hadn’t considered he might have been a ‘kissin’ cousin’.

[Fiver]

Can you direct me to the post where ‘they’ suggest Maria was having a fling with Blencowe.

Why should I crawl through the gutter to find a particular piece of sewage for you. There's plenty of examples of assuming or implying the worst about Maria Lechmere in this thread. Key words to look for are "bigamy" and "boy toy".

[MrBarnett]

We’ve clarified the ‘bigamy’ thing haven’t we? Maria’s second and third marriages were in fact bigamous. Whether she had acted criminally would have depended on whether she had evidence that JAL was still alive when she went through with them. That is not a moral judgement from me, just a statement of fact.

But whether she did or not, those two marriages were not legally valid. Any children she might have had with Cross or Forsdike would have been illegitimate and any assets she had outside of her father’s legacy which was seemingly held in trust by the Rev. Archer Clive were accessible to JAL.

That legacy appears to been in the form of income from investments were not touchable by JAL.

The reasons why she might have wanted to leave her native Herefordshire where she had a connection to Clive, a man, it would seem, with considerable influence over the local constabulary, and settle down in Tiger Bay seem obvious to me. Of course, even at that distance from Hereford she was vulnerable. Her son’s unique real name was a potential give-away.

[MrBarnett]

It’s ‘toy boy’ not ‘boy toy’, a humorous reference to the age discrepancy. I suspect the reason you are unwilling to look for that ‘particular piece of sewage’ is because it doesn’t exist.

[Fiver]

Harriet here was one of Maria’s sisters. When I spoke of George possibly being some kind cousin of CAL’s, innocent that I am, I hadn’t considered he might have been a ‘kissin’ cousin’.

George Blencowe was the son of Thomas Blemcowe and his wife Sarah. Maria's sister Harriet married William Blencowe and appears to have had only daughters.

Since George Blencowe was a carman, there's a possibility he was a friend of Charles Lechmere's from work.

[MrBarnett]

George Blencowe was the son of Thomas Blemcowe and his wife Sarah. Maria's sister Harriet married William Blencowe and appears to have had only daughters.

Since George Blencowe was a carman, there's a possibility he was a friend of Charles Lechmere's from work.

Yes, indeed, we weren’t able to make a connection, but it’s an unusual name, so there may have been one. Indeed he may have been a friend of CAL. As May the other carman at the address. Perhaps they attended his wedding. If they were god-fearing folk, they might have heard the banns being read out in the weeks leading up to the wedding.