Evidence of innocence

[caz]

Absolutely.




M.

Hi Mark,

You really had to ask how 'we know that Lechmere's eldest daughter wasn't living with her gran because she absolutely refused to live with her violent sexual psychopath father'?

After posting this:

In Loving Memory

'A loving father and a husband kind,
His like on earth we never more can find ;
Though in his grave he has been laid to rest,
We leave the trust to Him who knew him best.'

Or did you read the words differently?

'A murderous husband and psycho dad,
His like on earth was never had ;
Thank Christ in hell he'll roast for ever,
In flames kept fanned by sleuths so clever.'

Love,

Caz
X

[Fiver]

Everywhere I look in the outside world -- especially via the academy, which is where I work -- everyone is pointing the finger at every kind of previously undiscussed horror -- and quite rightly. Yet when Lechmere is in the frame, suddenly it's *sugar and spice* all over...

The problem is that Lechemre isn't in the frame. yet people assume the worst in spite of evidence.

CAL's oldest daughter, Elizabeth, lived with her parents until she married. Her first son was named after her husband, her second son was named Charles Lechmere after his grandfather.

CAL's second daughter, Mary Jane, was living with her grandmother in the 1881 Census, when she was 6 years old.

CAL's oldest son, Thomas, named one of his sons Charles Lechmere.

Charles Allan Lechmere Sr named one of his sons Thomas, but none were name for his birth father, John.

[rjpalmer]

Hi Mark,

You really had to ask how 'we know that Lechmere's eldest daughter wasn't living with her gran because she absolutely refused to live with her violent sexual psychopath father'?

After posting this:

In Loving Memory

'A loving father and a husband kind,
His like on earth we never more can find ;
Though in his grave he has been laid to rest,
We leave the trust to Him who knew him best.'

It's a fair question, but I suspect that the die-hard Lechmereans might point out that this was a stock verse. John William Millier (died 1918 and also buried in Tower Hamlets Cemetery) has the same verse on his tombstone, though it is a little difficult to make out in the photo below.

Still, even if unoriginal, one wonders why the family would choose this particular memorial verse if he was sexual abusive to his daughter, and his son went stark raving mad because he accidentally saw what dear old dad had been hiding in the shed.

[rjpalmer]

The problem is that Lechemre isn't in the frame.

It depends on your use of the word 'frame.'

There's a line by Robert Mitchum in the noir film 'Out of the Past,' that runs something like:

I can see the frame, but I can't make out the picture.

Personally, that's how I see the Lechmere theory.

[Fiver]

So far as I am aware the attached is the ONLY report of the RTA , I see NO mention of Pickfords providing legal advice.

There's also a bare bones account of the accident in Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper, Sunday, December 24, 1876.

[Elamarna]

There's also a bare bones account of the accident in Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper, Sunday, December 24, 1876.

Bare bones indeed

Fair catch.

[Fiver]

It depends on your use of the word 'frame.'

There's a line by Robert Mitchum in the noir film 'Out of the Past,' that runs something like:

I can see the frame, but I can't make out the picture.

Personally, that's how I see the Lechmere theory.

Well put.

And I suspect either one of us could build a better frame than they do.

[Ally]

Still, even if unoriginal, one wonders why the family would choose this particular memorial verse if he was sexual abusive to his daughter, and his son went stark raving mad because he accidentally saw what dear old dad had been hiding in the shed.

Well if you're a Lechmerian they'll no doubt now change the tune to "just because Lechmere was a ravening murderous fiend, doesn't mean he was abusive to his own family. There's several examples of serial murderers who were good to their own children."

They change their arguments more than their underpants, I suspect.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I have seen Lee Harvey Oswald described several times over the years as a psychopath.

I recall one book in which he was described as 'the psychopath, Lee Harvey Oswald...'

That description seems to have been based on the fact that the writers couldn't think why he would have murdered his own president unless he had been a psychopath.

Such a deduction does not come naturally to those of us who are convinced that he was framed.

Something similar seems to be going on with Lechmere:

he must have been a psychopath to murder Nichols on his way to work; to murder Stride on his way home from visiting his mother, and then murder Eddowes before finally realising he had twice gone in the wrong direction and made his way home (but not before dropping off an apron in Spitalfields and leaving a message about the Jews there).

I suppose he had to have been a psychopath to murder and mutilate Kelly, and then take her heart to work with him, arriving about two hours late.

Those of us who are convinced that Lechmere is in some sense being fitted up do not, however, see any reason to think that he was a psychopath.

[MrBarnett]

He was buried in a ‘pauper’s’ grave, wasn’t he? And the memorial card would most likely have been one chosen from the funeral director’s brochure. He left more than enough money for them to have buried him privately, but they chose not to.

The only hint of any family input into the funeral is the fact that the service was conducted by their own minister.

Let’s say he was a wrong ‘un, and the family knew it. How else would you expect them to behave?

[MrBarnett]

Hi Mark,

You really had to ask how 'we know that Lechmere's eldest daughter wasn't living with her gran because she absolutely refused to live with her violent sexual psychopath father'?

After posting this:

In Loving Memory

'A loving father and a husband kind,
His like on earth we never more can find ;
Though in his grave he has been laid to rest,
We leave the trust to Him who knew him best.'

Or did you read the words differently?

'A murderous husband and psycho dad,
His like on earth was never had ;
Thank Christ in hell he'll roast for ever,
In flames kept fanned by sleuths so clever.'

Love,

Caz
X

Hi Caz,

I believe he was just responding to someone suggesting that the fact that CAL’s 6-year-old daughter was living with her grandparents (both of them) in 1881 was somehow evidence that all was tickety boo in the family. The daughter was still living with her grandmother in 1891 and 1901, it looks like she never went back to her parents.

People often found/find it hard to speak ill of the dead, however disgracefully they behaved in life. I’m reminded of the fact that Eamon de Valera, the Irish prime minister, signed Hitler’s book of condolence.

Who chose the poem? His wife? One of his children? The undertaker?

Love,

Gazz X

[MrBarnett]

I sometimes wonder whether people park not only their common sense but also their personal experience when they jump into these debates.

Am I the only CB member (albeit on licence) who has ever attend a funeral, respectfully dressed in black, and hypocritically bowed their head as some unpleasant b’stard was lowered into the ground?

[MrBarnett]

Anyone wishing to investigate the alleged misogynistic ‘Lechmerian’ blackening of Maria Louisa Roulson’s character might like to start here:

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/moti...ld-ma-lechmere

And don’t neglect to follow the link to the Lechmere Trivia thread.

If anyone finds anything to support the accusation that those dastardly Lechmerians have described Maria as a ‘hussy’ who couldn’t ‘keep her knees together’ and had a sexual relationship with George Blencowe, let me know.

[MrBarnett]

The problem is that Lechemre isn't in the frame. yet people assume the worst in spite of evidence.

CAL's oldest daughter, Elizabeth, lived with her parents until she married. Her first son was named after her husband, her second son was named Charles Lechmere after his grandfather.

CAL's second daughter, Mary Jane, was living with her grandmother in the 1881 Census, when she was 6 years old.

CAL's oldest son, Thomas, named one of his sons Charles Lechmere.

Charles Allan Lechmere Sr named one of his sons Thomas, but none were name for his birth father, John.

It’s ‘Allen’, by the way, not ‘Allan’. Have you any idea of the significance of that name to the Lechmeres? I suspect not, but it seems you may have inadvertently stumbled across an interesting aspect of the Lechmere nomenclature. Why might CAL have named his kids after various members of his Lechmere and Roulson ancestors, but left out ‘John’?

Answers on a postcard…

[Fiver]

It’s ‘Allen’, by the way, not ‘Allan’. Have you any idea of the significance of that name to the Lechmeres? I suspect not, but it seems you may have inadvertently stumbled across an interesting aspect of the Lechmere nomenclature. Why might CAL have named his kids after various members of his Lechmere and Roulson ancestors, but left out ‘John’?

Answers on a postcard…

Most people would have said "You misspelled Allen."

I guess brevity isn't your strong suit.