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  • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

    The point of my anecdote was simply to refute the suggestion that a person caught in the commission of a crime (or almost so in my daughter’s case) will invariably immediately leg it. Not so. Some will try to engage/flannel or attack their finder. That’s it. End of.

    Your weird feelings are just that - weird - certainly if you are including me as one of those Lechmere accusers who can’t see the difference between the dark wooded place and a spot on Lechmere’s work route. :-)

    I'm just catching up so apologies if this has already been covered.

    I can't help but feel you are not comparing two similar scenarios here. The person peeking into your daughter's empty house had not committed a crime. Certainly, if he was wearing gloves and carrying a screwdriver and a crowbar he would have been arrested for "going equipped" under the Theft Act 1968. But you don't suggest that he was so he had not committed any crime whatsoever. (I have been known to peek inside a property I know is empty out of sheer curiosity).

    So no crime had been committed and so the person in your daughter's property scenario really did have absolutely nothing to fear. I can't reconcile his behaviour with that of a man who has committed a cold blooded murder a mere few minutes before. If C/L committed the murder his life was at stake if he stood his ground and tried to talk his way out of it.

    I would suggest that you need to find examples of murderers who have killed just minutes previously who have stood with their freshly killed victim until a passer-by arrived and then they both go off together to find a policeman. Then we would be comparing apples with apples. I can't find such a case but that doesn't mean there has never been one of course.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ohrocky View Post

      I'm just catching up so apologies if this has already been covered.

      I can't help but feel you are not comparing two similar scenarios here. The person peeking into your daughter's empty house had not committed a crime. Certainly, if he was wearing gloves and carrying a screwdriver and a crowbar he would have been arrested for "going equipped" under the Theft Act 1968. But you don't suggest that he was so he had not committed any crime whatsoever. (I have been known to peek inside a property I know is empty out of sheer curiosity).

      So no crime had been committed and so the person in your daughter's property scenario really did have absolutely nothing to fear. I can't reconcile his behaviour with that of a man who has committed a cold blooded murder a mere few minutes before. If C/L committed the murder his life was at stake if he stood his ground and tried to talk his way out of it.

      I would suggest that you need to find examples of murderers who have killed just minutes previously who have stood with their freshly killed victim until a passer-by arrived and then they both go off together to find a policeman. Then we would be comparing apples with apples. I can't find such a case but that doesn't mean there has never been one of course.
      if I may.

      your scenario is too specific. your trying to compare two apples that are EXACTly alike. aint happening. all you need to do is find examples of criminals who didnt immediately flee, and tried to ruse witnesses/police when there were clearly other options. Ive had a personal similar situation happen to me, Dahmer has a famous example and even the ripper case has a suspect that also did just that-Bury. Bury walked right into the police to try to ruse his crime away. Lech(if guilty) did the same thing.

      and besides all Gary was doing was giving a personal example of someone who when caught doing something wrong may try to bluff it out, instead of just legging it or something else.

      and BTW I find your "legal" hand waving away that what the creep did in Garys story wasnt doing anything illegal or wrong totally bizarre. whats up with that?
      tresspassing, stalking, peeping tom? all illegal, or at the very least wrong.

      Last edited by Abby Normal; 05-19-2022, 02:54 PM.
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

        if I may.

        your scenario is too specific. your trying to compare two apples that are EXACTly alike. aint happening. all you need to do is find examples of criminals who didnt immediately flee, and tried to ruse witnesses/police when there were clearly other options. Ive had a personal similar situation happen to me, Dahmer has a famous example and even the ripper case has a suspect that also did just that-Bury. Bury walked right into the police to try to ruse his crime away. Lech(if guilty) did the same thing.

        and besides all Gary was doing was giving a personal example of someone who when caught doing something wrong may try to bluff it out, instead of just legging it or something else.

        and BTW I find your "legal" hand waving away that what the creep did in Garys story wasnt doing anything illegal or wrong totally bizarre. whats up with that?
        tresspassing, stalking, peeping tom? all illegal, or at the very least wrong.
        I have to disagree. As there is simply no evidence of wrong doing on Lech's part I think a close parallel would be useful. The Bury example doesn't work - he did the crime, mulled it over and went to the police after 6 days I think it was. With lech we're talking about being caught in the act on the open streets with blood on his hands, knife in pocket and taking someone over to look at the body. Sorry but no one is convincing me that is what the killer would have done. So lech is a psychopath and that is what he would have done - where is the evidence? There is none. If you look at someone killing out in the open like sutcliffe he was disturbed on several occasions and fled. What he did when he was caught (hiding his tools) seems like a likely course of action. What is proposed for Lech isn't.

        I spent a lot time reading about lech, as for a while, before I read up in more detail about all the suspects, I thought he probably was the ripper (based the docu, which is highly misleading in places). Having looked into the case in more detail I have one basic rule for suspects: are they more likely/a more viable suspect than Bury? I will happily acknowledge when that isn't the case, but for lech, it's a no.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

          I have to disagree. As there is simply no evidence of wrong doing on Lech's part I think a close parallel would be useful. The Bury example doesn't work - he did the crime, mulled it over and went to the police after 6 days I think it was. With lech we're talking about being caught in the act on the open streets with blood on his hands, knife in pocket and taking someone over to look at the body. Sorry but no one is convincing me that is what the killer would have done. So lech is a psychopath and that is what he would have done - where is the evidence? There is none. If you look at someone killing out in the open like sutcliffe he was disturbed on several occasions and fled. What he did when he was caught (hiding his tools) seems like a likely course of action. What is proposed for Lech isn't.

          I spent a lot time reading about lech, as for a while, before I read up in more detail about all the suspects, I thought he probably was the ripper (based the docu, which is highly misleading in places). Having looked into the case in more detail I have one basic rule for suspects: are they more likely/a more viable suspect than Bury? I will happily acknowledge when that isn't the case, but for lech, it's a no.
          if you dismiss lech for trying to bluff it out and walking right into the teeth of police-then you have to for Bury too. and if you think about it burys action is even more inexplicable, brazen/foolish and un ripper like. lech (if guilty)was caught near red handed, whereas Bury had time to think about it-he could have got rid of her body and or fled.

          anyway, I actually rank Bury slightly ahead of lech as a suspect-so Im not going to argue to hard with you about this! lol
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

            if I may.

            your scenario is too specific. your trying to compare two apples that are EXACTly alike. aint happening. all you need to do is find examples of criminals who didnt immediately flee, and tried to ruse witnesses/police when there were clearly other options. Ive had a personal similar situation happen to me, Dahmer has a famous example and even the ripper case has a suspect that also did just that-Bury. Bury walked right into the police to try to ruse his crime away. Lech(if guilty) did the same thing.

            and besides all Gary was doing was giving a personal example of someone who when caught doing something wrong may try to bluff it out, instead of just legging it or something else.

            and BTW I find your "legal" hand waving away that what the creep did in Garys story wasnt doing anything illegal or wrong totally bizarre. whats up with that?
            tresspassing, stalking, peeping tom? all illegal, or at the very least wrong.
            I suspect the man in my story was on the look out for builders tools to steal. That was certainly the view of our builders the next day.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

              I suspect the man in my story was on the look out for builders tools to steal. That was certainly the view of our builders the next day.
              yeah that too, at the very least hes trespassing-and thats def illegal. i was a little befuddled that rocky saying he wasnt comminting a crime
              "Is all that we see or seem
              but a dream within a dream?"

              -Edgar Allan Poe


              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

              -Frederick G. Abberline

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                if you dismiss lech for trying to bluff it out and walking right into the teeth of police-then you have to for Bury too. and if you think about it burys action is even more inexplicable, brazen/foolish and un ripper like. lech (if guilty)was caught near red handed, whereas Bury had time to think about it-he could have got rid of her body and or fled.

                anyway, I actually rank Bury slightly ahead of lech as a suspect-so Im not going to argue to hard with you about this! lol
                Ha, you won't be surprised to know I still disagree. There is a world of difference between the Lech theory - being caught in the act/red-handed and waiting for a passerby some way off and then inviting them to look at the woman you've just bumped off and then taking a walk to find the nearest PC - and what Bury did. We have heard that Lech the psycho took his opportunity to play a little game and try to control the situation in Bucks Row (no real evidence of this of course) - is that not exactly what Bury did? And let's not forget very nearly worked.

                In the quiet early morning the ripper would undoubtedly have heard Lech's approach and been off, if indeed it did happen that way, it might have been before lech was even on the scene.

                Comment

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