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Framing Charles

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  • >>‘Oh you mean Charlie Lechmere. I’ve known him for years. My kids went to school with the Lechmere kids and I went to his wedding. Did you ever hear his story about being descended from ‘erefordshire’ gentry? Charles HALLEN Lechmere no less.’<<

    That be the one, 'course, I'd known a bit longer than you, since 'e's old step dad Tommie Cross took 'I'm down 'ter Pickfords fer 'es first job. Imagine the shock I got years later when I found out he was also calling 'im self Lechmere out side 'er work!
    Last edited by drstrange169; 05-15-2021, 11:50 AM.
    dustymiller
    aka drstrange

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    • Originally posted by paul g View Post
      Is there any documentation after the the murders and before his death of him switching names.

      also off topic in the documentary it indicates he became a wealthy man in later years . How did he make his money .

      what name is on his death certificate ?
      Name on his death cert? Charles ALLEN Lechmere.
      Name in the index of deaths? Charles A Lechmere.
      Name in the burial register? Charles ALLEN Lechmere.
      Name on the memorial card? Charles ALLEN Lechmere.

      Of course, we have no proof of what name he was generally known by.

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      • >>I wonder how many people attended CAL’s wedding to Elizabeth Bostock in 1870, and whether when the vicar started speaking the congregation began whispering ‘Lechmere? Who’s this Charles ALLEN Lechmere? I thought this was Charlie Cross’s wedding.’<<

        Well, of course, Lizzie Lechmere, certain knew Ma Cross, as she was calling her self, at the time. Depending on how long they courted, she might have met Tom too.
        dustymiller
        aka drstrange

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        • >>’Have you seen the misprint on the memorial card? It says Charles ALLEN Lechmere. What a disgrace!’<<

          That what he called himself when selling brussels and bananas to customers.
          dustymiller
          aka drstrange

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          • >Of course, we have no proof of what name he was generally known by.<<

            Name of his step dad when he joined Pickfords? Cross
            Name on the census when his Step dad was alive? Cross
            Name the man Pickford representatives dealt with at the accident inquest? Cross.
            Name used at Mrs Nichols inquest when he appeared in his Pickfords uniform? Cross

            Of course, we have no proof of what name he was generally known by at Pickfords.
            Last edited by drstrange169; 05-15-2021, 11:53 AM.
            dustymiller
            aka drstrange

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            • Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
              >>‘Oh you mean Charlie Lechmere. I’ve known him for years. My kids went to school with the Lechmere kids and I went to his wedding. Did you ever hear his story about being descended from ‘erefordshire’ gentry? Charles HALLEN Lechmere no less.’<<

              That be the one, 'course, I'd known a bit longer than you, since 'e's old step dad Tommie Cross took 'I'm down 'ter Pickfords fer 'es first job. Imagine the shock I got years later when I found out he was also calling 'im self Lechmere out side 'er work!
              Your cockney’s better than mine!



              ‘Oh, so you never got an invite to the wedding, then?’

              ‘Nah, I didn’t know ‘im that well.’



              There were three 20-something carmen living at 11, Mary Ann Street alongside Ma Lechmere in 1871, CAL, Alfred Croote and George Blencowe. The household set up is slightly confusing, but Blencowe at least was Ma’s lodger. He ended up in an asylum suffering from ‘mania’.



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              • Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
                >>I wonder how many people attended CAL’s wedding to Elizabeth Bostock in 1870, and whether when the vicar started speaking the congregation began whispering ‘Lechmere? Who’s this Charles ALLEN Lechmere? I thought this was Charlie Cross’s wedding.’<<

                Well, of course, Lizzie Lechmere, certain knew Ma Cross, as she was calling her self, at the time. Depending on how long they courted, she might have met Tom too.

                And Lizzie presumably knew that CAL was CAL before their wedding day. Ditto her parents and numerous siblings?

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                • Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
                  >Of course, we have no proof of what name he was generally known by.<<

                  Name of his step dad when he joined Pickfords? Cross
                  Name on the census when his Step dad was alive? Cross
                  Name the man Pickford representatives dealt with at the accident inquest? Cross.
                  Name used at Mrs Nichols inquest when he appeared in his Pickfords uniform? Cross

                  Of course, we have no proof of what name he was generally known by at Pickfords.
                  Seems we may almost have a meeting of minds?

                  He was probably known by both names and therefore should have given both at the inquests. He didn’t, he withheld one - the one that, if it had appeared in the papers, would have linked him uniquely to two very unpleasant events.

                  His attempt to conceal his identity was so successful that even today we have people who cannot bring themselves to use the L word.





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                  • “ He was probably known as both names “
                    Whats that statement based on as there doesn’t seem to be anything official stating that or anything unofficial for that matter.

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                    • Originally posted by paul g View Post
                      “ He was probably known as both names “
                      Whats that statement based on as there doesn’t seem to be anything official stating that or anything unofficial for that matter.
                      If there was unequivocal documentary evidence, there’d be no reason for the ‘probably’.

                      The reasons have been given.
                      Last edited by MrBarnett; 05-16-2021, 12:15 AM.

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                      • It looks like Lechmere's brother-in-law was a bit of a hell raiser. 4 months breaking rocks and picking oakum for trying to take on Johnny Law. Charles couldn't have been impressed.

                        Click image for larger version

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                        • Where's Iconoclast when we need him?

                          JAmes BostoCK aka "Jack": violent psychosis due to head injury, at large in the East End in 1888.

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                          • Mr Barnett,
                            Yes a lot of things could have happened before Paul arrived,but there is no evidence( eye witness etc)to prove that anything other than what Cross(That is a name he gave)states did happen.Could have is not proof of an happening. Cross, in giving a name and address where he could be contacted,satisfied both the requirements of the inquest,and of the law in general.That it doesn't satify you doesn't matter.

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                            • Click image for larger version

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                              Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
                              Where's Iconoclast when we need him?

                              JAmes BostoCK aka "Jack": violent psychosis due to head injury, at large in the East End in 1888.

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                              • Looks like JB may have been a crazy knife-carrying Fenian drug fiend.
                                Last edited by MrBarnett; 05-16-2021, 01:12 AM.

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