Framing Charles

[MrBarnett]

didnt he also call bowyer a boy with his eyes bulging out too? dew certainly had some howlers

I think he did. Bowyer was a middle-aged army pensioner in poor health. How could Dew have made such a mistake? A similar mistake to that made by certain newspapers?? It’s a mystery. Dew certainly bigged up his involvement in the Kelly case.

For me, Dew is the flip side of Arthur Harding. Their motivation was primarily to place themselves at the centre of important events.

[MrBarnett]

Doesn’t Dew have Squibby being called Jack the Ripper by a howling mob a couple of weeks before the Dear Boss letter was received?

[MrBarnett]

The stories of the likes of Dew, Harding and Ben Leeson need to be taken with huge pinches of salt.

That doesn’t mean they should be dismissed out of hand, but you really need to look for corroboration for everything they say. And if in doubt, assume they’re spinning the facts to make themselves look good.

[Abby Normal]

Drew on Nichols:

“The remains were taken to the mortuary-what terrible places these were in those days-where further examination proved beyond all doubt that the hand which had struck down Martha Turner had also committed the crime in the gateway of the Essex Wharf.

We began our inquiries at once.”


“We”? Was lowly PC Dew seconded to J Div. on account of his precocious detective skills?

Or is this just one example of many of his pretending to have been closer to events than he actually was?

exactly rj. i tend to take what alot of the police higher ups said with a grain of salt. anderson, dew, MM etc.
i tend to go with the cops with that have their boots on the ground, rather than the ones with their boots on the desk.

but he does get tabram and nichols killed by the same man right, so i give him credit for that. : )

[Abby Normal]

The stories of the likes of Dew, Harding and Ben Leeson need to be taken with huge pinches of salt.

That doesn’t mean they should be dismissed out of hand, but you really need to look for corroboration for everything they say. And if in doubt, assume they’re spinning the facts to make themselves look good.

absolutely correct.

[Abby Normal]

Walter Dew was there, had a long career at Scotland Yard, and rose to the position of Chief Inspector. He writes after many years, and this must be born in mind, but nothing he says is "laughable," unlike much of the gibberish I read from people who attach gratuitous suspicion to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who has a cameo in this case.

I thought Stowe did a good job of analyzing Paul, and he did so in an honest and thoughtful manner.

RP

whats your definition of every tom dick and harry rj? please dont tell me its anyone that wasnt a police suspect. because not only would you be insulting a large number of respectable researchers and authors who have brought alot of good new info to the table, your showing how close minded in your thinking your being. lets be realistic... druitt, koz, chapman tumblty as suspects have holes you could drive a bus through.
ALL the suspects are weak, including the police suspects.

and in my top tier of least weak suspects ive actually got four police suspects(koz, chapman, bury, kelly) and two "witness suspects" (hutch and letch). lest you accuse me of speaking gibberish.

[drstrange169]

>>lech was alone with nichols, .. and that is not debateable its a clear fact. so my point stands<<

Ditto Diemshitz, Davis,Bowyer, Reeves and Crow.

[Abby Normal]

>>lech was alone with nichols, .. and that is not debateable its a clear fact. so my point stands<<

Ditto Diemshitz, Davis,Bowyer, Reeves and Crow.

yes! absolutely. thats my whole point

[Fiver]

He lived at no. 13, in 1861 when it was called Thomas Street. It was subsequently renamed Pinchin Street. The house where he had been recorded as Charles Cross, aged 11, in 1861 was one of the few still standing in 1889.

The terrace of houses between Phillip Street and Stutfield Street was still there in 1916 when my grandmother lived there.

Thank you for the correction. Knowing that Thomas Street became Pinchin Street means I was incorrect and Charles Lechmere did live on Pinchin/Thomas Street as a child.

[Fiver]

Why is the rag probably totally unrelated? What are the implications you have identified? And please, the line should not be drawn from the arch to the rag, it should be drawn from the arch to 22 Doveton Street - in which that line passes over where a bloody apron was found on the day after the dumping of the Pinchin Street Torso.
If, as you on no basis at all assert us, that rag was not tied to the torso, then guess what it is instead? Correct: Another drop in the ocean of coincidences that seem to point to Lechmere. Poor fellow!

I'm unable to find any evidence that a bloody apron was found at St Philip´s Church.

"...a bloodstained undergarment found at half-past seven in a vacant yard in Hooper-street, 500 yards away. It had been thrust through a hole in the fence, and it was turned over to the police. The stains on this, as on the chemise, were old and dried." - New York Herald, London edition, 11 September 1889

An undergarment is not an apron. A vacant yard is not a church. A line from the Pinchin Street Torso to Hooper Street goes nowhere near where Charles Lechmere lived.

[rjpalmer]

I'm unable to find any evidence that a bloody apron was found at St Philip´s Church.

[Fiver]

He was late, though - or so he said. So he left home at 3.30. And should have been outside Browns Stable Yard at 3.37 - but happened to be in place there many minutes after that time. So much for schedules.

Charles Lechmere said that he left home at "about half-past three". According to Google Maps it would take about 9 minutes to walk from 22 Doveton Street to the Nichols murder site. That's today with better pavements, much better lighting, and cleaner streets than the ones that Charles Lechmere walked.

Robert Paul said that he left home "just before a quarter to four".

PC Neil said that he spotted Nichols body at "a quarter to four o'clock".

PC Thain said he was summoned by PC Neil at "about 3.45 a.m"

PC Mizen said that two men (Lechmere and Paul) told him about the body "about a quarter to four o'clock"

Robert Paul claimed this encounter with PC Mizen took place "not more than four minutes" after Paul saw Nichols body.

Charles Lechmere did not have a lot of time alone with Nichols' body.

[Fiver]

Thank you for finding and sharing this. Did the police make any connection between this "coarse apron" and the Pinchin Street torso?

[Abby Normal]

Thank you for finding and sharing this. Did the police make any connection between this "coarse apron" and the Pinchin Street torso?

hi fiver
having read fishes book, i know the answer-no they did not.

[Fiver]

Paul wanted to prop Nichols up, for example, which would have given away what had happened to her.

You have this backwards. Lechmere suggested "they should give her a prop". Paul refused.

He did not have all four Whitechapel victims on his way to work.

Tabram, Nichols, Chapman, and Kelly were at least as much on Paul's way to work as they were on Lechmere's way to wok.