Why is the possibility of Lechmere interrupting the ripper so often discarded?

[MrBarnett]

Actually, no. An alibi is a confirmation that a person was elsewhere at the time concerned. 'Alibi' = Latin, literally ‘elsewhere’.

Why are people using the term to mean something different? Did I miss yet another triumphant act of logocide?

M.

They also call it an alibi that Chapman may have been killed after Lechmere’s shift had started.

[MrBarnett]

Isn't this a rather irrelevant observation?

What CAL had seen or not seen in Buck's Row only became relevant once it was determined that Nichols had been murdered. That hadn't happened yet.

Whether guilty or innocent, CAL wouldn't have mentioned who he had seen, since he supposedly wasn't yet aware there had been a murder.

He was only quizzed about it later, once it was discovered that a crime had been committed.

So if she’d been raped or assaulted and robbed what Lechmere had possibly seen wouldn’t have been relevant? Is that really what you’re saying RJ?

You discover a woman lying unconscious or dead in the street and before you reach her you see a man making a hasty departure from the scene. The man’s departure is of no significance to you or a passing PC until it’s determined that the woman was murdered?

[rjpalmer]

Whether he was innocent or guilty, saying that he had seen/heard someone would have increased the likelihood of his being detained by Mizen.

Isn't this a rather irrelevant observation?

What CAL had seen or not seen in Buck's Row only became relevant once it was determined that Nichols had been murdered. That hadn't happened yet.

Whether guilty or innocent, CAL wouldn't have mentioned who he had seen, since he supposedly wasn't yet aware there had been a murder.

He was only quizzed about it later, once it was discovered that a crime had been committed.

[Mark J D]

It would also give him an alibi

Actually, no. An alibi is a confirmation that a person was elsewhere at the time concerned. 'Alibi' = Latin, literally ‘elsewhere’.

Why are people using the term to mean something different? Did I miss yet another triumphant act of logocide?

M.

[Darryl Kenyon]

If Lech didn't want to be detained by a copper he wouldn't have taken the chance to go to Mizen in the first place.

[Darryl Kenyon]

‘…given the chance to alibi himself, why did he say he didn't see or hear anyone?’

Whether he was innocent or guilty, saying that he had seen/heard someone would have increased the likelihood of his being detained by Mizen.

It would also give him an alibi

[Darryl Kenyon]

Following on from my last post, if Paul was interviewed in the early hours. Perhaps Lech was at the same time. So the two witnesses could corroborate each other but separately. To see if there were any discrepancies etc which may cast suspicion on one or both.
I think it is a technique the police still use.
Regards Darryl

[Darryl Kenyon]

I’ll tell you why, because Mulshaw was linked to the horse slaughterers who for some reason were in the frame. CAL was not.

Yes, so why Mulshaw ? Someone who was nearby but not someone who found the body ?

Have we come on leaps and bounds in evolutionary thinking since 1888 ?
I would argue that the police relied more on instinct, groundwork, local knowledge and the interviewing of witnesses far more than we do now .
So bearing all that in mind my own thoughts are that Lech was cleared pretty quickly
Off the top of my head Paul was interviewed [ being knocked up in the night ] . It seems very unlikely that the police wouldn't do the same to lech.

Regards Darryl

[MrBarnett]

Why would Lechmere need to have said he saw someone run or walk away?

‘…given the chance to alibi himself, why did he say he didn't see or hear anyone?’

Whether he was innocent or guilty, saying that he had seen/heard someone would have increased the likelihood of his being detained by Mizen.

[MrBarnett]

I wasn't talking about why he sought out (or not) a policeman, Gary.

No, sorry, that was Dusty. But you replied to his post and didn’t challenge it. Do you think it’s accurate to say he ‘sought out a policeman’ or that in company with Paul he came across one?

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,

I think there are other things that might be found a bit odd, whether you’re looking at things with a guilty or innocent Lechmere in mind, but this isn’t one for me, at least. I mean, Tabram (if you count her as a Ripper victim) and Kelly weren’t seen either with anybody in the last hour or so before they were murdered and the Nichols inquest, just like all the others except Stride’s, produced not even a handful of witnesses that were up & about around the time of the murder. To me, it just means that there were very few people up and about when/where they were all killed, except in Stride’s case.

Cheers,
Frank

Hi frank
Youve completely lost me with this post.

I mean, Tabram (if you count her as a Ripper victim) and Kelly weren’t seen either with anybody in the last hour or so before they were murdered

what?! tabram (and yes, I count her as a ripper victim) was seen with a soldier-both Pearly Poll and another cop actually coroberate that. Kelly was seen with blotchy, aman and we have hutch who himself admits he was hanging around. stride was seen with numerous suspects, eddowes was seen with sailor man. chapman was seen with mr shabby genteel.

to me seems like theres quite a few people always up and about- but no suspects seen with nichols- except lech. so yes again I find that somewhat odd.

[FrankO]

‘There’s a woman in Buck’s Row who needs your attention.’

‘There’s a woman lying in Buck’s Row, as I approached her a man who was standing over her ran away.’

Which statement is more likely to get you past a PC?

Why would Lechmere need to have said he saw someone run or walk away?

[FrankO]

He didn’t ‘seek out’ a policeman, though. That’s just more spin.

I wasn't talking about why he sought out (or not) a policeman, Gary.

[MrBarnett]

Except that the police would want to clear things up as you say yourself in a previous post Gary. Which to my mind means at the very least they would have dispatched a police officer to Pickfords to check they had an employee who started work at 6 am on the morning of Polly's murder with the surname Cross.

Regards Darryl

The more of an investigation into Cross is argued, the less sense it makes that Swanson only mentioned him in passing.

Why a bullet point for Mulshaw and not one for the finder of the body whom you have thoroughly checked out at home and at work?

I’ll tell you why, because Mulshaw was linked to the horse slaughterers who for some reason were in the frame. CAL was not.

[MrBarnett]

-- Or, to put it another way, which statement is going to have plod refusing to let go of the bone you have just obligingly given him to chew on...?

"You said 'standing over her'. Did he seem tall to you? Was he thin or fat? Earlier, you seemed to think he had a hat -- but now you don't? Did he run fast, like a healthy person, or with difficulty? Did you see which way he turned at the end of the road? Tell us again about that hat you may have seen. Did you get an impression of his age? Did he turn to look at you as you approached? Did you see his face at all? You must have been able to see his silhouette at least. Did you see a long coat? Did he make a noise as he ran? Let's go back to how tall he was. Can you estimate his height? You are sure it was a man, rather than another woman?"

By contrast, simply saying 'I didn't see a soul...' shuts everything down right away, and you have nothing to remember...

"Thank you for your time, sir. Sorry to have troubled you."

M.

And something similar applies to his not legging it when he caught sight of Paul. If he had done so, Paul would have immediately been alerted to the fact that a crime had been committed.

If he was the killer, the way he interacted with Paul and Mizen was probably the best thing he could have done.