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  • Horse Slaughterer theory

    I have a question regarding the Nichols murder.


    Let's look at the location itself and some small but interesting facts associated it.


    Bucks Row


    Nichols was slain just yards away from Winthrop Street, the site of a Horse Slaughterers.


    3 of the men who worked at the Slaughterers were later questioned and then excluded from enquiries.


    As a horse slaughterer, a man would have needed some skill with a knife.


    Forget gutting fish.


    Let's talk about horses


    So JTR choses (arguably) to slaughter his first (arguable) victim just yards away from a Horse Slaughterer?


    Interestingly, the man who 'found' Nichols, the witness/suspect, Charles Lechmere worked as a Carman.


    But maybe it's not his work that's necessarily relevant

    It's the fact that his mother, Maria Forsdike, worked as a 'Horse Flesh Dealer' at the time of the murder.


    She undertook this CHANGE of work at some point after 1881


    Maria and her husband Joseph (Charles Stepfather) lived in Cable Street.


    So, here's my outlandish theory.


    Were the killings the result of some warped family business?



    Maria worked in the Horse flesh dealer trade and her son was the man who found Nichols just yards away from a Horse Slaughterer.


    What if Charles Lechmere took parts of his victims to take back to his mother and they had some warped trade in dealing with human remains under the guise of dealing with horses?


    It is also rather interesting that the subsequent Pinchin Street Torso was found under a railway arch just yards away from where Maria Forsdike had lived previously.


    There were other reports of human parts being put into pies

    So maybe Lechmere was the killer and his mother Maria was the mastermind behind it all?


    As an aside, if you look closely at the handwriting of Joseph Forsdike on his marriage certificate to Maria, his hand looks remarkably like that of the author of some of the written correspondences signed Jack the Ripper.


    A family business



    Thought, theories and onslaught please?



    TRD





  • #2
    I posted this link elsewhere recently, but it's spot on here.

    https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...106#post743106

    It's not a 'ripper' article per se, it's about the effect of slaughterhouses on the men working in them at that time. Worth a read.
    Thems the Vagaries.....

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post
      I have a question regarding the Nichols murder.


      Let's look at the location itself and some small but interesting facts associated it.


      Bucks Row


      Nichols was slain just yards away from Winthrop Street, the site of a Horse Slaughterers.


      3 of the men who worked at the Slaughterers were later questioned and then excluded from enquiries.


      As a horse slaughterer, a man would have needed some skill with a knife.


      Forget gutting fish.


      Let's talk about horses


      So JTR choses (arguably) to slaughter his first (arguable) victim just yards away from a Horse Slaughterer?


      Interestingly, the man who 'found' Nichols, the witness/suspect, Charles Lechmere worked as a Carman.


      But maybe it's not his work that's necessarily relevant

      It's the fact that his mother, Maria Forsdike, worked as a 'Horse Flesh Dealer' at the time of the murder.


      She undertook this CHANGE of work at some point after 1881


      Maria and her husband Joseph (Charles Stepfather) lived in Cable Street.


      So, here's my outlandish theory.


      Were the killings the result of some warped family business?



      Maria worked in the Horse flesh dealer trade and her son was the man who found Nichols just yards away from a Horse Slaughterer.


      What if Charles Lechmere took parts of his victims to take back to his mother and they had some warped trade in dealing with human remains under the guise of dealing with horses?


      It is also rather interesting that the subsequent Pinchin Street Torso was found under a railway arch just yards away from where Maria Forsdike had lived previously.


      There were other reports of human parts being put into pies

      So maybe Lechmere was the killer and his mother Maria was the mastermind behind it all?


      As an aside, if you look closely at the handwriting of Joseph Forsdike on his marriage certificate to Maria, his hand looks remarkably like that of the author of some of the written correspondences signed Jack the Ripper.


      A family business



      Thought, theories and onslaught please?



      TRD



      I have given this theory a lot of thought over the years.

      Two things to point out in respect of the connection of the Lechmeres to the horse flesh trade.

      First, there is no evidence to suggest that Maria Lechmere was involved in the horse flesh trade as early as 1888.

      And secondly, the sort of horseflesh trade an old lady would have involved in is far more likely to have been the retailing of already butchered and cooked horse flesh as cat’s meat.


      Last edited by MrBarnett; 10-14-2020, 07:41 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread...arrison+barber

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

          There were other reports of human parts being put into pies
          Pretty sure Sweeney Todd was fictional.
          "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
          - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

          Comment


          • #6
            I can’t see it being a very profitable trade for the quantity of body parts taken over the period?
            Regards

            Herlock




            “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
            “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
            “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
            “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
            “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post
              I posted this link elsewhere recently, but it's spot on here.

              https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...106#post743106

              It's not a 'ripper' article per se, it's about the effect of slaughterhouses on the men working in them at that time. Worth a read.

              Absolutely amazing link and extremely interesting and thought provoking.


              I have just read through and think i may have stumbled across something which has just made my jaw drop...


              I literally can't believe what i have just seen


              And now i've seen it, i can't noticing something that stands out very clearly.


              I think there's a clue which has been taring us all in the face for over century and to my knowledge, no one has ever mentioned it...



              Now it may be nothing, but i just want to ask you all what you think...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post


                Absolutely amazing link and extremely interesting and thought provoking.


                I have just read through and think i may have stumbled across something which has just made my jaw drop...


                I literally can't believe what i have just seen


                And now i've seen it, i can't noticing something that stands out very clearly.


                I think there's a clue which has been taring us all in the face for over century and to my knowledge, no one has ever mentioned it...



                Now it may be nothing, but i just want to ask you all what you think...
                you found an anagram for something?
                "Is all that we see or seem
                but a dream within a dream?"

                -Edgar Allan Poe


                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                -Frederick G. Abberline

                Comment


                • #9
                  Okay


                  so, let's take this slowly...


                  FACT - We have a Carman called Lechmere who 'finds' the body of Nichols in Bucks Row and has come under suspicion as well documented

                  FACT - Nichols was slaughtered only yards away from a Horse Slaughterer

                  FACT - This man's own mother (Maria) at the time of the murder MAY have been a horse flesh dealer (and certainly later was by the time of the 1891 census)

                  FACT - Her husband Joseph (Lechmere's stepfather) dies in 1889


                  Horse slaughterhouse +
                  A horse flesh dealer+
                  A Carmen who specializes in transportation

                  According to professional opinion at the time, (Philips etc...) a horse slaughterer would certainly needed to have been skilled with using a knife, but not have the same level of skills as a surgeon


                  Okay,
                  so far so good...

                  So it could be said that idea that JTR had some experience as a Slaughterman is quite likely based on the nature of the wounds inflicted.


                  The mutilations

                  The skinning and chunks of flesh ripped from MJK

                  The removal of organs


                  The concept that JTR may have been a Slaughterman and just obliterated his victims like they were weak animals and commodities to be exploited as they had little value to him other than their ability to yield organs is an interesting theory.



                  But here's the little gem i noticed, the aforementioned revelation that as far as i'm aware, has never been mentioned before on any threads...



                  The FROM HELL letter...


                  arguably highly likely to be authentic and written by JTR

                  Now I said on another thread that i had been trying to decipher a code, a hidden message, a clue from the killer as to his identity, as i've always felt that JTR was a very cunningly clever individual and not illiterate by and means.


                  I have just suddenly realized i have been looking in the wrong place...


                  There are no written codes in the From Hell letter...

                  BUT there IS a clue which has been staring us in the face for over a century...

                  a clue so blatantly obvious that it made me chuckle at it's simplicity


                  and here it is...


                  On the From Hell letter,


                  Why is there a large PICTURE of a HORSE right in the middle of the page?!


                  Everyone reading this post, look at the letter right now...


                  and see how the author has drawn a flaming HORSE!


                  Once you see it, you see it.


                  The legs are clear as day, the long strokes of the ink make the vertical lines of the animal.

                  The blood spatters make up the mane and head.

                  The word 'tOOk' makes up the eyes.



                  The author of the letter was trying to tell us he had a connection with horses.

                  A horse slaughterer

                  Or a horse flesh dealer

                  Or the son of one perhaps?



                  Here's a little aside for those Lechmerians


                  Did Lechmere choose the location next to the Horse Slaughterhouse to murder Nichols?

                  And then Choose NOT to flee as it wasn't just the murder he wanted you to focus on, it was the location.


                  This would explain why he didn't flee when Paul approached him.


                  Being found at the location of the murder was part of the show.




                  So,

                  thoughts, theories and onslaught please?


                  And would someone please look at that From Hell letter and check out the DRAWING of that horse.

























                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post
                    Okay


                    so, let's take this slowly...


                    FACT - We have a Carman called Lechmere who 'finds' the body of Nichols in Bucks Row and has come under suspicion as well documented

                    FACT - Nichols was slaughtered only yards away from a Horse Slaughterer

                    FACT - This man's own mother (Maria) at the time of the murder MAY have been a horse flesh dealer (and certainly later was by the time of the 1891 census)

                    FACT - Her husband Joseph (Lechmere's stepfather) dies in 1889


                    Horse slaughterhouse +
                    A horse flesh dealer+
                    A Carmen who specializes in transportation

                    According to professional opinion at the time, (Philips etc...) a horse slaughterer would certainly needed to have been skilled with using a knife, but not have the same level of skills as a surgeon


                    Okay,
                    so far so good...

                    So it could be said that idea that JTR had some experience as a Slaughterman is quite likely based on the nature of the wounds inflicted.


                    The mutilations

                    The skinning and chunks of flesh ripped from MJK

                    The removal of organs


                    The concept that JTR may have been a Slaughterman and just obliterated his victims like they were weak animals and commodities to be exploited as they had little value to him other than their ability to yield organs is an interesting theory.



                    But here's the little gem i noticed, the aforementioned revelation that as far as i'm aware, has never been mentioned before on any threads...



                    The FROM HELL letter...


                    arguably highly likely to be authentic and written by JTR

                    Now I said on another thread that i had been trying to decipher a code, a hidden message, a clue from the killer as to his identity, as i've always felt that JTR was a very cunningly clever individual and not illiterate by and means.


                    I have just suddenly realized i have been looking in the wrong place...


                    There are no written codes in the From Hell letter...

                    BUT there IS a clue which has been staring us in the face for over a century...

                    a clue so blatantly obvious that it made me chuckle at it's simplicity


                    and here it is...


                    On the From Hell letter,


                    Why is there a large PICTURE of a HORSE right in the middle of the page?!


                    Everyone reading this post, look at the letter right now...


                    and see how the author has drawn a flaming HORSE!


                    Once you see it, you see it.


                    The legs are clear as day, the long strokes of the ink make the vertical lines of the animal.

                    The blood spatters make up the mane and head.

                    The word 'tOOk' makes up the eyes.



                    The author of the letter was trying to tell us he had a connection with horses.

                    A horse slaughterer

                    Or a horse flesh dealer

                    Or the son of one perhaps?



                    Here's a little aside for those Lechmerians


                    Did Lechmere choose the location next to the Horse Slaughterhouse to murder Nichols?

                    And then Choose NOT to flee as it wasn't just the murder he wanted you to focus on, it was the location.


                    This would explain why he didn't flee when Paul approached him.


                    Being found at the location of the murder was part of the show.




                    So,

                    thoughts, theories and onslaught please?


                    And would someone please look at that From Hell letter and check out the DRAWING of that horse.
























                    haha very funny pierre.

                    now please stop clogging up the boards with constant barrage of nonsense
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                      I can’t see it being a very profitable trade for the quantity of body parts taken over the period?
                      Female body parts were in high demand, as were other body parts, that's why body dealers thrived in Victorian times. Demand outweighed the availability!!!!!!!!

                      You have to ask if the same killer was resposnible for all the murders why was it that the only two victims that were missing organs at the post mortems Chapman and Eddowes were the only two victims that had their abdomens opened by the killer in a such a way that could allow their organs to be extracted and sold to body dealers?

                      And much of the trade in body parts was from mortuaries via corrupt mortuary attendants

                      www.trevormarriott.co.uk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Whoa Nelly!

                        I posted a link to an interesting article. I am in no way responsible for any cryptic horses that may or may not be found in the Lusk Letter.

                        I did actually double check though, and having looked at 4 versions of varying clarity, I can't see any horse. Not even vaguely. If TRD has a clearer image, put it up.
                        Thems the Vagaries.....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm still tossing up between yea and neigh
                          Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            With respect, i have been accused of being a guy called Pierre since i joined the site last year and it baffles me how some still think i am him.

                            I have looked through some posts and see that Pierre was someone who was obsessed with Lechmere and talked nonsense most of the time.


                            I can see how you may think i am him as we do seem to both express ourselves in a similar way outlandish way.

                            However, the difference is that he appears to have been very shallow minded, whereas i am open to all theories and opinions as i am i favor of actually solving the case and putting the rippers legend to bed and expose him for the pointless loser he was.


                            Keeping the case alive by being shallow minded and not being open to varying viewpoints is a subconscious attempt to not want to solve the case. It's self perpetuating and frustrating to say the least.


                            Pierre sounded like a moron, but at least he seems to have brought some energy and zest to the casebook.


                            There is a funny irony in that there will still be some who will continue to think i am someone i am not, a bit like those who believe the hype and myth of JTR rather than look at the facts of the case.

                            Let's face it, JTR is only famous because he was never caught. If he was caught he would have faded into historical insignificance.



                            Let's bring some energy and try to work TOGETHER to actually solve this thing instead of being divided.



                            I mean, who the hell was Pierre?!!!

                            We don't even have the same Syntax





                            TRD

                            a.k.a. NOT some geezer called Pierre


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I did actually double check though, and having looked at 4 versions of varying clarity, I can't see any horse. Not even vaguely. If TRD has a clearer image, put it up.[/QUOTE]


                              I'm not too tech savvy but i will print out a copy of the letter, then draw around the horse and then try and upload it.


                              Hope that works


                              TRD

                              Comment

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