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  • Lechmere and Chapman

    The debate on Annie Chapman’s TOD goes on but for the sake of this question I’ll assume that Phillips was correct and that Annie had been dead for at least 2 hours at 6.30.

    If Annie was murdered at around 4.30 does that in any way affect Lechmere’s candidacy given that we know that, on the 31st of August, he was on his way to start work at 4 am?
    Regards

    Herlock



    “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

    “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

    ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
    The debate on Annie Chapman’s TOD goes on but for the sake of this question I’ll assume that Phillips was correct and that Annie had been dead for at least 2 hours at 6.30.

    If Annie was murdered at around 4.30 does that in any way affect Lechmere’s candidacy given that we know that, on the 31st of August, he was on his way to start work at 4 am?
    hi herlock
    it helps his candidacy, as it places her death closer to the time he would be traveling by to go to work.
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

      hi herlock
      it helps his candidacy, as it places her death closer to the time he would be traveling by to go to work.
      Hi Abby,

      If she’d been dead for 2 hours then Lechmere had been at work for half an hour.

      If 2 1/4 hours he’d been at work for 15 mins.

      If 2 1/2 hours he was just arriving at work.

      If 2 3/4 hours then he’d either still being loaded or he was setting off.

      All times after that he’s on his round. Was he likely to have pulled over and left his Pickford cart parked up loaded with meat (in an area where it would have been a massive temptation for any local thief) to go and kill and mutilate a prostitute?

      If he had planned the kill then that would meant he’d have had to a spent time looking for one. On his timed work round?

      If he’d just spotted Annie and decided to go for it that would surely have meant parking up his cart almost outside number 29.

      I can’t see it to be honest.
      Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 10-01-2020, 03:36 PM.
      Regards

      Herlock



      “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

      “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

      ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

        Hi Abby,

        If she’d been dead for 2 hours then Lechmere had been at work for half an hour.

        If 2 1/4 hours he’d been at work for 15 mins.

        If 2 1/2 hours he was just arriving at work.

        If 2 3/4 hours then he’d either still being loaded or he was setting off.
        Do we know if Lechmere was working that Saturday or if his shift had changed for any reason?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by etenguy View Post

          Do we know if Lechmere was working that Saturday or if his shift had changed for any reason?
          I think that pretty everyone worked on a Saturday but I don’t think that we know anything about shift changes.
          Regards

          Herlock



          “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

          “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

          ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

            I think that pretty everyone worked on a Saturday but I don’t think that we know anything about shift changes.
            There's no reason to think Lechmere wasn't working as normal. I just don't think the murderer struck on his way to work, especially when you consider Kelly. One thing all the canonical murders have in common is that they occurred at weekends, I don't think that is coincidence.

            Comment


            • #7
              One of the stories from Cross conspiracy theorists is that he could have committed the murder whilst he was at work, parking his horse and cart outside.
              dustymiller
              aka drstrange

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                The debate on Annie Chapman’s TOD goes on but for the sake of this question I’ll assume that Phillips was correct and that Annie had been dead for at least 2 hours at 6.30.

                If Annie was murdered at around 4.30 does that in any way affect Lechmere’s candidacy given that we know that, on the 31st of August, he was on his way to start work at 4 am?
                Josh and I have posted the name of a published medical article showing research that due to TB Meningitis , a person's temperature has been recorded as low as 32 C.
                I know I've posted it on at least three or four times,twice recently on a current thread.

                That is 5 C below average.

                I understand why Fisherman point blank refuses to understand.

                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
                  One of the stories from Cross conspiracy theorists is that he could have committed the murder whilst he was at work, parking his horse and cart outside.
                  This is not impossible, of course, but no-one reported seeing a horse and cart in the area.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by etenguy View Post

                    This is not impossible, of course, but no-one reported seeing a horse and cart in the area.
                    Mrs Prater did -

                    "I went asleep, and was awake again at five a.m. I passed down the stairs, and saw some men harnessing horses."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DJA View Post

                      Josh and I have posted the name of a published medical article showing research that due to TB Meningitis , a person's temperature has been recorded as low as 32 C.
                      I know I've posted it on at least three or four times,twice recently on a current thread.

                      That is 5 C below average.

                      I understand why Fisherman point blank refuses to understand.
                      But haven’t you heard that Phillips was infallible Dave ?
                      Regards

                      Herlock



                      “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

                      “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

                      ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Does anyone know if Pickford's carts would have had the company name on it at that time?
                        Regards

                        Herlock



                        “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

                        “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

                        ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sure did.
                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            WRT Pickfords, the link
                            <https://unsolvedwhitechapel.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/a-info5.jpg?w=908>
                            shows an 1888 (allegedly) pickfords cart clearly labelled along its side and front.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dupin View Post
                              WRT Pickfords, the link
                              <https://unsolvedwhitechapel.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/a-info5.jpg?w=908>
                              shows an 1888 (allegedly) pickfords cart clearly labelled along its side and front.
                              Hi Dupin,

                              Thanks for that but the link
                              isn't working.
                              Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 10-02-2020, 10:38 AM.
                              Regards

                              Herlock



                              “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

                              “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

                              ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

                              Comment

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