Cross The Ripper?

[Sally]

Gee, Fish, it's like Lewisgate all over again

The Cross Camp needs to do some more research if Cross is ever to be accepted as a Ripper candidate by more than a few. I don't see the problem with that really.

You can't seriously have thought that a purely conjectural case against him would 'solve' the identity of the Ripper at this remove? It isn't enough.

I understand entirely why people eschew 'suspect' Ripperology. If not entirely hopeless, it's very, very difficult to make any headway.

[Fisherman]

Sally:

"The Cross Camp needs to do some more research if Cross is ever to be accepted as a Ripper candidate by more than a few. I don't see the problem with that really."

I don´t know whether you realze this, Sally, but potentially everybody who has answered you poll also accept him as a candidate for the Ripper title. And the amount of research that is needed to persuade those who are not already persuaded that he is viable as a candidate will vary from person to person.

"You can't seriously have thought that a purely conjectural case against him would 'solve' the identity of the Ripper at this remove? It isn't enough."

I can, though, very seriously think that the addition of the name swap, the Cable Street business and the Mizen scam strengthens the case against Lechmere. And - believe it or not - I never expected everyboy to accept that the Ripper has been found. I expected them to realize that Lechmere´s candidature had been significantly strenghtened.

"I understand entirely why people eschew 'suspect' Ripperology. If not entirely hopeless, it's very, very difficult to make any headway."

Unless, that is, you find name swaps, Cable Street addresses and Mizen scams. If you do so, then you have made headway and moved the case forward.

Anyway, this is not what the thread is about, is it? And you are normally very unwilling to discuss not threadrelated matters, so ...?

The best,
Fisherman

[Sara]

In case it hasn't been logged elsewhere today, there is a piece about Cross a a possible Jack on the Telegraph website today, citing research by Holmgren and Stow. Sorry but it's so long since I was on here I can't remember if they are members here or not!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9512928/Was-Jack-the-Ripper-a-cart-driver-from-Bethnal-Green.html

It seems Cross should have a thread of his own on the suspects page (incidentally, I'm amazed to see that neither he nor Thomas Cutbush appear on the 'main page' as suspects)

[Sally]

It seems Cross should have a thread of his own on the suspects page (incidentally, I'm amazed to see that neither he nor Thomas Cutbush appear on the 'main page' as suspects)

Really? I'm not. I'm sincerely un-amazed. And I bet I'm not the only one un-amazed either.

Of course, if one makes exaggerated claims to the public they are bound to lap it up. It doesn't make the case against Cross any stronger than it is.

[Garza]

Am I right in saying that Cross was the only civilian seen alone with one of the dead victims?

[Bridewell]

In the Times, in 1888, he was "standing in the middle of the road".

In the Telegraph, in 2012, he's:

crouching over the body

You've got to admit, he is getting closer!

Regards, Bridewell.

[Sally]

Oh he is. In another hundred years he'll have the knife in his hand...

[Cogidubnus]

Richardson's knife most likely!

Dave

[Garza]

And covered up by the IWMC!

[Fleetwood Mac]

Really? I'm not. I'm sincerely un-amazed. And I bet I'm not the only one un-amazed either.

Of course, if one makes exaggerated claims to the public they are bound to lap it up. It doesn't make the case against Cross any stronger than it is.

Cross?

I am monumentally underwhelmed by Cross and his leaning over bodies and touching faces and false names and having a cat that strayed near Berner Street one day.

But, on the other hand, young Tommy Cutbush is another thing altogether. Dark horse.

[Sally]

Cross?

I am monumentally underwhelmed by Cross and his leaning over bodies and touching faces and false names and having a cat that strayed near Berner Street one day.

But, on the other hand, young Tommy Cutbush is another thing altogether. Dark horse.

He had a cat that strayed near Berner Street? Why did nobody mention this before??

An unequivocal indication of guilt.

[Bridewell]

Misquoted?

Extracts from the Telegraph article:

Mr Stow said: "We think it (was) Charles Cross, the first person who found that first body. He was seen crouching over Polly Nichols

No he wasn't.

and he was trying to cover up some of the wounds.

Pure supposition.

"He hasn't been the subject of a lot of investigation and has only crept up very vaguely in census records.
"We have found out that he gave a false name to the police.

An alias name, by which he had been known earlier in life.

His real name was Charles Latchmere.

Lechmere. Presumably this is a journalistic error.

"He walked past every single murder scene on his way to work.

You have to wonder why he went via Berner Street.

I'm assuming that Christer & Edward have been misquoted by the Telegraph in the article.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Scott Nelson]

I suspect the spirit of Charlie Cross is looking down on all this nonsense and laughing very hard. They don't allow crying in heaven.

[Robert]

Aren't Mr Holmgren and Mr Stow one and the same person?

[Phil H]

I think any "opposition" is less to the poll and its methodology, than (in some quarters at least) to having to consider Cross/Lechmere (C/L) as a suspect at all!! but that's just MHO.

As I have said on several occasions, I think it would be HUGELY ironic if one of the first NAMED people anyone reads about in the Ripper case - since man books start with the Nichols killing, was ro emerge as a killer of at least some of the women.

Circumstantially (and I emphasise that word deliberately) I think a case could be made out for looking in depth at C/L for Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes given his likely routes to work. As I don't think (on balance) Stride and Kelly are Ripper victims, that puts C/L in a good position to be the considered the "killer usually known as JtR".

I also note that the Pinchen St torso was found close to the alleged home of C/L's relatives - that may or may not be significant. Either put there by C/L as killer (???? unlikely unless he was forced to abandon it) or by the torso-killer as some sort of mesage(??).

NOTE: I do not think C/L - at least on present evidence - to be a prime suspect. Nonetheless, I think his behaviour, where he was found, route to work etc - make him worthy of greater scrutiny than he has ever been afforded in the past.

Phil H