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Why isn't La Bruckman talked about? Is what is supposed true about him?

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  • Why isn't La Bruckman talked about? Is what is supposed true about him?

    Reading about him it seems he is the most likely killer of Carrie Brown and by his own admission he was arrested because of the Whitechapel crimes which tie him across the Atlantic. His sadism to cattle suggests a pathology that could be transferred to humans and there is scant information about where he ended up suggesting more unknown crimes could be out there.

    In terms of strong connections to the crimes, the dissertations about him almost makes him seem as strong a suspect as Kosminski and Hutchinson. Yet there is no discussion on him. Now I'm no fancy big-city lawyer but this seems like a huge admission.

    Is it that there is no more to say about him? Is it that what is written about him has no corroboration? Or is it that it is all an obvious fabrication? Would someone have to be totally stupid to suspect him? Did he even exist? Or is it that he is such an unknown quantity that nobody dares talk about him for fear of becoming totally confused about who the important suspects are? Will anyone actually reply to this thread?

    My guess is no.
    Last edited by Mort Belfry; 05-11-2009, 10:10 AM.
    "Damn it, Doc! Why did you have to tear up that letter? If only I had more time... Wait a minute, I got all the time I want! I got a time machine!"

  • #2
    hi Mort

    i've just come across La Bruckman myself, and you raise some good questions (I think so anyway )

    Apparently he was very sadistic, and had that knowledge re anatomy of animals that some suggest may have been all that was required to be the Ripper.

    From my understanding, he just "disappeared" whilst the possibility of him being the Ripper was being investigated...the trail ran cold i think...that's my guess anyway, from the little i have read.

    If anyone knows anything else i'd be fascinated to hear.

    cheers Mort
    babybird

    There is only one happiness in life—to love and be loved.

    George Sand

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mort Belfry View Post

      Will anyone actually reply to this thread?

      My guess is no.
      Hi Mort,

      ...so you think there's a "Casebook cover-up" ?
      Don't, please.
      Until last summer, there was no discussion about Grainger as well, though he is (at least at first glance) a serious and plausible suspect.

      Whatever, this thread seems promising.
      Could you please summarize the case against La Bruckman, as you understand it, and quote the relevant sources ?

      Amitiés,
      David

      Comment


      • #4
        Any 'overlooked' suspect requires another look at.

        Do you know where the info about him 'admitting he was arrested because of the Whitechapel crimes which tied him across the Atlantic ' is (i.e where you found that ?) and do you know the year that occured Mort ?

        Comment


        • #5
          hi Barry



          The little i have gleaned about him being sadistic with animals etc i came across in Paul Roland's The Crimes of the Ripper (2007). There wasn't much though...as i say the trail seemed to have gone cold at the time. Presumably he changed his name and moved away or something?
          babybird

          There is only one happiness in life—to love and be loved.

          George Sand

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, the first question is where was in the autumn of 1888? You wouldn't think this would be hard to determine. Is it known?

            Comment


            • #7
              You mean I've got to find all the relevant details? I thought you guys all knew. Awwwww man. Let's hope I remembered them correctly when I wrote the OP.

              All I know about La Bruckman is what I've read in these articles:

              http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-frenchys.html

              http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...rriebrown.html

              I suppose its the scant information on him, not a casebook cover up , that is behind the lack of discussion.



              Here's the quote from the first article that mentions La Bruckman talking about being caught with Jack the Ripper in England.

              "The night of the East River Hotel murder" he said, "I passed in this lodging house . . . My name is Arbie La Bruckman, but I am commonly called John Francis. I was born in Morocco twenty nine years ago. I arrived here on the steamer April 10 from London . . ." The reporter asked, "Why were you arrested in London?" La Bruckman replied, "About 11 o'clock one night a little after Christmas, 1889, 1 was walking along the street I carried a small satchel. I was bound for Hull, England, where I was to take another ship. Before I reached the depot, I was arrested and taken to the London Headquarters. I was locked up for a month, placed on trial and duly acquitted. After my discharge the Government gave me £100 and a suit of clothes for the inconvenience I had suffered." (13)
              The Daily Continent, following up this story, stated that; "For the past fourteen years [La Bruckman] has been employed by Meyer Goldsmith as a cattleman on the steamers of the National Line, plying between this port and London. La Bruckman felt so bad about his arrest that he wept when locked up in a cell to await instructions from the New York police. Detective Sergeant McCloskey went over to Jersey City in the afternoon glanced at the prisoner, and said that he was not wanted ... Detective McCloskey said that the fellow was the man familiarly known as Frenchy No.2, but he was not the murderer ... [La Bruckman] freely acknowledged that he was arrested in London eighteen months ago on suspicion of being the Whitechapel murderer. He claims that his trial for killing one of Jack The Ripper’s victims lasted two weeks, and when he was acquitted the Government gave him $500 and a new suit of clothes ... He has signed to sail on the steamer Buffalo next Saturday" (14)
              "Damn it, Doc! Why did you have to tear up that letter? If only I had more time... Wait a minute, I got all the time I want! I got a time machine!"

              Comment


              • #8
                The two articles that MB linked to can also be found in the 2006 book Ripperology, the Best of Ripperologist Magazine. Unfortunately they’re not worth the paper they’re printed on.

                There is no cover up regarding La Bruckman on Casebook. In fact he was at one time heavily discussed on the boards but at a time when the author of the La Bruckman theory, Michael Conlon, posted here. At that time Mr. Conlon was the only researcher who had seen the original sources, such as the New York District Attorney’s Scrapbooks, that he used to formulate his theory. This made it difficult to discuss La Bruckman with an educated opinion since no one other than Conlon had one. When this situation changed, Conlon’s theory took a beating.

                The theory is this: Arbie La Bruckman, a drover on cattleboats which sailed between New York and London, was arrested in London and charged with the Whitechapel Murders. Amazingly, La Bruckman was also the number one suspect in the Jack the Ripper murder of Carrie Brown in New York in 1891. What were the odds of this being merely a coincidence? Arbie La Bruckman must therefore be Jack the Ripper.

                Firstly, the London evidence. La Bruckman claimed that he was arrested, charged, and put on trial for being Jack the Ripper but was released after he was found innocent, a story he told to several people. This never happened. No record of his arrest and no mention of his name in connection with the Whitechapel Murder Investigation has ever been found and no one ever stood trial for being the Ripper. Worse, La Bruckman constantly changed his story when interviewed by the New York press so that first there was a trial, then there wasn’t a trial. First he was paid £100 in compensation then he was paid £500. First he was held for two weeks then it became four weeks then six weeks. It is clear that none of this ever really happened.

                Secondly, the Carrie Brown murder. Carrie Brown was not murdered by Jack the Ripper, the autopsy report would tend to confirms this, so there is no connection between the New York and the London murders. Arbie La Bruckman’s description does not match that of the man who murdered Carrie Brown, it wasn’t even close. The New York Police did not discount the description of the killer as Conlon states. La Bruckman was not “Frenchy No. 2,” the number one suspect in the Brown murder (a fact which can be found within the District Attorney’s Scrapbooks). More than one person who knew La Bruckman stated that he was no sadist with the animals in his charge and in fact was a very conscientious and dependable worker who some ship’s captains asked for by name when crewing their ships. La Bruckman was a minor suspect known as “the Cattleman” who came to police attention because of speculation in the Press based on an anonymous letter. He was arrested in New Jersey, interviewed by a NYPD detective, able to give an alibi for his whereabouts on the night of the murder and was released.

                La Bruckman is probably one of the worst suspects ever put forward as Jack the Ripper but one of the best lessons on why suspect based writing should be read, and believed, with caution.

                Wolf.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks Wolf, that was the sort of thing I was hoping to hear.

                  So what is true about him?
                  He existed, he was questioned in connection with Carrie Brown then said he was arrested in connection with Jack the Ripper?

                  What was his relation to the Carrie Brown in the first place? Was he just in the vicinity? Was he acquaintances with Ameer Ben Ali? Is there any credible suspect for Frenchy no 2 or is it quite likely to have been Ali who killed Brown? Is there evidence that La Bruckman was ever in England? Are there any Ripper dates he definitely would have missed?
                  Last edited by Mort Belfry; 05-12-2009, 09:13 AM.
                  "Damn it, Doc! Why did you have to tear up that letter? If only I had more time... Wait a minute, I got all the time I want! I got a time machine!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you haven't done so already, go here: http://www.casebook.org/about_the_ca...0la%20Bruckman

                    As Wolf says, much of the dissertation is speculative. It is confusing when trying to pull the facts from the fat. If I remember correctly, it was a flash in the pan that amounted to nothing.

                    Mike
                    huh?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So where does he belong on a list of suspects of decreasing credibility?

                      After James Kelly but before Dr Cohn?
                      "Damn it, Doc! Why did you have to tear up that letter? If only I had more time... Wait a minute, I got all the time I want! I got a time machine!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        thanks Wolf and Mike

                        very informative!
                        babybird

                        There is only one happiness in life—to love and be loved.

                        George Sand

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Dear Wolf,

                          I was at one time much interested in LaBruckman, after reading Conlon's dissertations, and I know you two have debated this aggressively to put it mildly. Did you ever write a dissertation on LaBruckman? I am just wondering what is the source for the "facts" you state in your post, such as for example, where you say LaBruckman was not Frenchy #2? What do you have to back this up? Or the part where you say LaBruckman was not cruel to animals?

                          Again, I am just asking for the source you base these claims on.

                          I do remember that Conlon determined that LaBruckman was a foreman drover and slaughterman for the National Line, and also that boats from this line were in London docks during all the Ripper crimes. At one point I was thinking of trying to track down the crew lists for these ships to see if LaBruckman was in London on the murder dates, but I never got around to it.

                          Most of the crew lists are apparently at the Maritime History Archive, Memorial University of Newfoundland, St John's Newfoundland, Canada. A small number are also at the National Maritime Museum, Maritime Information Centre, Romney Rd, London.

                          Conlon also wrote the following to me in an email:

                          "During the Nichols murder: there were two National Line ships in port in London - the 'Greece' and the 'Helvetia'. The National Line ship 'Italy' left the evening of the Aug. 30, probably before the murder. The 'Greece' left London for N.Y. shortly after the murder was discovered on the 31st.

                          During the Chapman muder: the National Line ships 'Egypt', "Denmark","Canada" and perhaps "Italy" and "Greece" were in London."

                          I think that for anyone interested in La Bruckman, or for that matter Ameer Ben Ali, a good place to start would be to track down the crew lists for the National line... you could start with the boats above.

                          Rob House

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi MB.

                            So what is true about him?
                            He existed, he was questioned in connection with Carrie Brown then said he was arrested in connection with Jack the Ripper?
                            That’s about it. He had no relation to Carrie Brown or her murder or Ameer Ben Ali. He spent the night of the murder at Tommy Bennett’s lodging house at No.81 James street and this was fully corroborated by several people there. He did travel between New York and London on board cattleboats but on what dates he was in London is anybodies guess. It should be pointed out that when the New York World first broke the “Cattleman”
                            story it was reported in the press that several telegrams flew back and forth between the NYPD and London. Given the timing it is likely that these had something to do with La Bruckman but it is obvious that, since La Bruckman was so quickly dismissed as a suspect, London had no evidence against him or had evidence that disproved his supposed arrest.

                            Rob.

                            Although I plan to write an in depth article about La Bruckman as a suspect I can’t now say when this might be published, what with the fate of Ripper Notes being at this point unknown.

                            I am just wondering what is the source for the "facts" you state in your post, such as for example, where you say LaBruckman was not Frenchy #2? What do you have to back this up? Or the part where you say LaBruckman was not cruel to animals?
                            This information comes from various New York City newspaper reports which covered the murder and subsequent investigation. These reports I found, much to my amazement, when I got a copy of the District Attorney’s Scrapbook; the same D A’s Scrapbook which Mr. Conlon used to write his articles. Information found there included interviews with several people who knew “Frenchy No.2,” who provided not only a description of the man but also his name, part of his history and where he lived as well as an interview with him. This man was not Arbie La Bruckman and he could not be confused with him.

                            Information about La Bruckman also comes from this source as well as other newspaper reports (of which I have probably the world’s largest collection dealing with the Brown murder) in which people who knew La Bruckman vouched for his name and reliability. The only evidence that La Bruckman was a sadist with the animals under his charge was from the anonymous letter – which contained errors tending to show that the writer didn’t know La Bruckman that well – which was sent to the World. No one who knew La Bruckman corroborated this, quite the opposite.

                            I also found that although La Bruckman sailed on the National Line he also sailed on other lines as well. This means that one would have to go through all the crew lists from ships who sailed into London from the New York area during the murders and to be able to recognize which alias La Bruckman was using since he appears to have used several of them. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me since there is absolutely no evidence that Arbie La Bruckman had anything to do with the Carrie Brown murder let alone the Whitechapel Murders.

                            Wolf.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wolf Vanderlinden View Post
                              Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me since there is absolutely no evidence that Arbie La Bruckman had anything to do with the Carrie Brown murder let alone the Whitechapel Murders.
                              My thoughts on this, as with anything else related to research, is simply to uncover as many facts as possible. Despite your claim that Carrie Brown was not a Ripper victim, I could not either agree or disagree with your argument without actually seeing the coroners reports myself... and if La Bruckman was not Frenchy #2, then who was Frenchy #2? I believe Frenchy #2 was arrested, correct? Also, if I am not mistaken, Ameer Ben Ali was convicted of the murder of Carrie Brown although it was later overturned.

                              Again, my point is simply that the goal is to discover what actually happened with Carrie Brown, and with these other characters (La Bruckman, Ben Ali, Frenchy #1 and 2, etc). After all, someone must have killed her. I just dont like it when people choose not follow up potential leads after jumping to the conclusion that it is not worth it. I am not claiming that you are doing this, but again, since I have not seen your work, or the original documents, I would not venture to agree or disagree with your conclusions. The best thing, in my opinion, would be for someone to find and post the original documentation so that others can see them, and decide for themselves whether or not it is worth following up.

                              Rob H

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