Aaron or not

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff

Schwartz is on record as stating that it was the assailant who shouted the word Lipski, but it may be academic anyway, there is in my mind a distinct possibility that Stride was not a Ripper victim.

Observer

Then that also leaves the possibility Aaron was BS man and Strides killer, but not jack the Ripper...(however Stride is on my list as a victim).

I'm sure Aaron has been connected to a lot of possible properties including Goulston Street and The house next to Eddows murder. I dont think anyone knows fore sure...Robs your best bet to ask...I'd say Greenfeild Street.

Old Montigue Street appears to be 'Jacks' proffered road. He'd stay off the main roads..

Nice chatting observer

[Observer]

Hi Jeff

Schwartz is on record as stating that it was the assailant who shouted the word Lipski, but it may be academic anyway, there is in my mind a distinct possibility that Stride was not a Ripper victim.

And yes, the whereabouts of Kosminski at the time of Eddowes murder is unknown, but if he was not living in Sion Square at the time, then I'd be looking North of the Whitechapel High street/Whitechapel Road.

all the best

Observer

[Jeff Leahy]

The seccond reason that I think it unlikely Kosminski to have beeen the Ripper hinges on the assumption that Stride was a Ripper victim. I can’t see anyone other than Schwartz’s assailant being her killer, and according to Schwartz the assailant shouted the name Lipski at him. Would a Jew use this insult to denigrate another Jew? He might, but I think it far more likely that a Gentile shouted that insult.

All the best

Observer

Just a quick observation, we dont know BS man shouted 'lipski' it coud have been pipeman shouting at BS man. also Schwartz spoke very little English..almost anything could have been said and this was the only word he recognised..

We dont know where Aaron was living at the time of the Eddows murder.

Yours Jeff

[Observer]

Apart from gut instinct, provided by the various descriptions of Aaron Kosminski’s character, and eventual worsening mental condition, two other reasons come to mind which illustrate why I think it highly unlikely that Aaron Kosminski was Jack the Ripper.

Firstly the individual who commited the Eddowes murder headed North East , and quite plainly resided North of the Whitechapel High Street/Witechapel Road . Evidence points to Kosminski Living in Sion Square I believe, and with the greatest will in the world, there’s no way the escapee ,had he lived in Sion Square, would have made off in a North Eastern direction .

The seccond reason that I think it unlikely Kosminski to have beeen the Ripper hinges on the assumption that Stride was a Ripper victim. I can’t see anyone other than Schwartz’s assailant being her killer, and according to Schwartz the assailant shouted the name Lipski at him. Would a Jew use this insult to denigrate another Jew? He might, but I think it far more likely that a Gentile shouted that insult.

All the best

Observer

[Jeff Leahy]

So it looks as though "6 months" has been corrected to "6 years", which would take the onset of Aaron's mental problems back to 1884 or 1885, when he would have been 18 or 19.

In that case Chris 19, would hit the hammer bang on the head. It is very unusual for cases before this, at least my brother has never dealt with any.

Apparantly 19 to 22. Often straight 'A' students, male, first year at university, very common. (although recently he has seen lots of sufferers from a drug called Skunk).

Hi Observer,

The problem is that we know very little about Aaron before 1991. I certainly dont think you should make the mistake of thinking him stupid, far from it, schizophrenic's are often highly intelligent. There was a Hollywood film called 'A beautiful Mind' starring Russel Crow. Its Hollywood but does deal with some schizophrenic issues, and is worth watching.

Hi Rob

Wow. Yes. Casebook gets more interesting by the day. Its possible.

[Natalie Severn]

I think he "could" have been.But not because of what Robert Anderson said.
However the fact that he was considered "harmless" upon admission to Colney Hatch at the age of 26 and that he appears to have been considered "harmless" throughout his 30 year stay,together with the fact that its now known that he was happily walking his dog in Cheapside in 1889,makes me reluctant to say " it was him".
In the days before there were drugs to control the mania of severe mental illness,which are very very effective in controlling it these days ,its very unlikely that the schizophrenia,if it was schizophrenia , would have burnt itself out by such a young age and rendered him quite harmless.
Thomas Cutbush appears to have been afflicted with paranoid schizophrenia ,judging from his paranoia about doctors poisoning him and the fact he was "unfit to plead", at his trial over stabbing young women in the street.
Kosminski has no" known" record of violence like that, and he was not placed in Broadmoor, which was the more appropriate asylum for the "criminally" insane and where,for example Cutbush was sent and ended his days.
Nevertheless he cant be lightly dismissed and I look forward to more information on him being unearthed by Rob,to add to the superb stuff he has dug up recently.

[robhouse]

OK, I will answer this question...

Well, I dont think I have ever written this before, but I will now say that I do believe it is likely that Aaron was Jack the Ripper. I base this on my own personal interpretation of the facts of the case and the what is known of Aaron Kozminski's life. But I cannot come to this conclusion based on analysis alone... part of it is based on intuition and a gut-feeling. Yes, there are inconsistencies, but there is too much smoke for there not to be a fire. Also, in my researching him, I have never found anything that has been a powerful strike against him being JTR, but I have found things that have supported the theory of his being Jack. I think that further research may make the argument stronger. But yes, I do think he was probably Jack the Ripper.

[Observer]

Hi Jeff

As I detect a certain clique here in this Forum, I didn't expect too many takers to my question "was Aaron Kosminski Jack the Ripper". At least you have the good manners to answer my question.

I could be wrong, (oh man how wrong I can be) but the feeling I pick up regarding Aaron Kosminski’s character does not lead me to believe that he had the nous to be Jack the Ripper.

The Ripper displayed a certain calm daring do efficiency that I do not detect in Aaron Kosminski. His court appearance in 1889 by all accounts resembled a pantomime, he not knowing whether he was Abrahams or Kosminki. I suspect that poor Aaron was always a problem to his immediate family.

Could it be that his mother was not capable of looking after him and entrusted her son to the care of his brother in law who brought him to England, she staying on the continent. His deteriorating mental condition could well be the reason Mr’s Kosminski appeared in England, she was after all his mother , one can imagine her grief upon hearing of her son’s worsening condition, obviously she would want to see him.

No, I don’t think he had the ability to be Jack the Ripper

All the best

Observer

[Chris]

I dont get Chris's six year claim? that would make him to young. (I'm happy to pass on information).

All I can say is that in the "Statement of Particulars" attached to the order for Aaron to be committed to Colney Hatch [LMA StBG/ME/107/8, no 1558] it says "Duration of existing attack Six months" (and "Age on first attack Twenty five years").

But in the "Colney Hatch Case Book Male Side" [LMA H12/CH/B13/39] where the same statement occurs, "6 years" has been added in red, and in the admission register [LMA H12/CH/B2/2] it says "TIME INSANE: 6 years".

So it looks as though "6 months" has been corrected to "6 years", which would take the onset of Aaron's mental problems back to 1884 or 1885, when he would have been 18 or 19.

[Jeff Leahy]

Back reading the various posts here in this thread, I would tend to say that the Kosminski referred to by Macnagten, and Swanson, and the Low class Jew referred to by Anderson is Aaron Kosminski.

If this is the case, can I ask if anyone really believes he is Jack the Ripper? Personnaly I do not believe he is Jack the Ripper.

all the best

Observer

Of course we will never know for sure, I think it credible that Aaron is the man refered to by Swanson, MacNaughten and Anderson..yes...was he really JtR..

Well thats the big question isnt it?..no answers..

However I have spent all summer talking to my brother..who is an expert on Schizophrenia..running through Aarons known case notes.

I believe Aron suffered from Schizophrenia..his symptoms very typical...

His pattern and behaviour would represent someone going through its various phazes..

I must admit I'm unclear about Schizophrenia and Paranoid Schizophrenia, they appear variations of the same illness to me? This illness is still not fully understood.

We would expect earlier warnings to his family..they would be aware he was different at any rate, a loner.

Psychotic attacks would last 12-18 weeks at a time..in waves..getting steadily worse..over a long period.

There need be no family history..

Burn out between 35 and 45 years old..

Subject typically dangerous if taking/affected by drugs or alcohol.

illusion of grandier. Highly excitable, then flat.

I dont get Chris's six year claim? that would make him to young. (I'm happy to pass on information).

Most schizophrenics: male, high achievers, start late teens..typically early twenties. Highly intelligent. Very capable. Not normally dangerous.

Not certain about Nats sex claims..I will ask my brother..(many thanks Nats..)

Aaron fits the modern profile as far as I can see. But comparison with modern cases difficult because we have drugs that can stop symptoms today.

That dosn't make Aaron Jack the Ripper. Just a possible fit. or what a modern profiler would expect 'if' he were Jack the Ripper.

Jeff

I am hoping to put together a better profile for Rob House as requested..

My brother had a baby girl in october and I havnt like'd to press him..not a good time, but I will see what I can do.

But any information, questions etc.. I am happy to pass on to him.

[Dan Norder]

For instance, if Anderson knew that Reid, Littlechild, Smith, Abberline, Macnaghten, etc. etc. were all alive and still drawing breath in 1910, why didn't he give a damn that they would contradict him? Why publish such an audacious story knowing full well that these other men were in a position to challenge it?

Probably for all of the same reasons certain people in this field continuously make the same false claims about the Ripper case which any number of other authors can (and do) point out are not true.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Nats

Well, of course even though his mum wasn't there, she may have been in postal communication with him - quite frequent communication! I'm sure he must have been a bit of a disappointment to her. And I'm sure she'd have found a way of letting him know it.

Robert----you bet

[Robert]

Hi Nats

Well, of course even though his mum wasn't there, she may have been in postal communication with him - quite frequent communication! I'm sure he must have been a bit of a disappointment to her. And I'm sure she'd have found a way of letting him know it.

[Natalie Severn]

Didn't his mother arrive on the scene c.1890/1? It strikes me that this might be enough to tip him over the edge (and I'm not joking here).

Thats actually really perceptive Robert!
I never forget seeing that film ,"Portnoys Complaint" which gently pokes fun at some of the anxieties of traditional Jewish mothers and fathers,it picks up on their almost hysterical response to Portnoy"s "problem" which was actually similar to poor Aaron"s-----ie if the recorded reason the family gave for his "insanity" is accurate.
I have just cut out a piece from this weeks "Independent" magazine page 47 ,where it has a piece about a new TV series entitled ,"Jews" .This week"s episode is about the "black sheep" of an ultra-orthodox Hasidic family in North London,a man named Samual,just released from prison for drug trafficking.It states that Samual rebelled in his teens against the endless strictures of this society,which adopts rules about how to dress,what to read and who to marry from village life in 19th century Eastern Europe.In return for obedience though,the community offers comprehensive material and spiritual support,even reaching out to a prodigal like Samual.
When I read that,even though I only know Aaron"s family were "practising" their religion---not that they were Hasidic Jews or anything,I wondered if family strictures had got a bit much.His case notes say he was very obstinate and I must admit I got that impression a bit,when I read he refused to work and that he walked the dog in Cheapside in 1889 ,without a muzzle,when he surely must have known he was supposed to put a muzzle on the dog before taking it out walking.Imagine mother arriving only to discover Aaron had refused to work and had maybe become a bit scruffy and kept sloping off to behave like Portnoy! Quite right ,Robert, she may well have done a performance like Portnoy"s outraged mother and set off
a crisis for Aaron,which increased his obstinacy -amongst other recorded anti-social activity, and whereby he ended up telling them all he was being instructed by a Universal instinct more powerful than any of them!

[Robert]

Ok, Chris, then it must have been the thought of his mother coming.