Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[pinkmoon]

I knew you would bite !

I've just heard mike Barrett has discoverd a long lost copy of Shakespeare's limericks

[spyglass]

The diary has never been proved a fake!!!!!!!!the people who found it can't even remember where they found it least the shawl has some story about how it was discoverd.

Still hasnt been prooved a fake, and must be getting on for about20 yrs now.
How long will this one last ?
Just saying !!

[Stewart P Evans]

Amazing

Still hasnt been prooved a fake, and must be getting on for about20 yrs now.
How long will this one last ?
Just saying !!

It's amazing how some people believe that you need 'proof' to know that something is a fake.

[pinkmoon]

Still hasnt been prooved a fake, and must be getting on for about20 yrs now.
How long will this one last ?
Just saying !!

As Mike Barrett always told me "this diary can never be proved""however it can never be disproved" and you know what he is right.

[Stewart P Evans]

I won't...

...
we will all still carry on reading and researching because we know its utter rubbish.

I won't, I am back into my old WWII aviation interest.

[Jeff Leahy]

I tried table running once, but kept falling off the table. Or are we talking about something else here?

Yes I remember the wolverhampton conference well, it was one hell of a hang over…

But as I've understood it.. a table 'runner' was simply a fashion strip of clothe that went down the centre of a table to 'look good' I don't believe it had a practical purpose but I'm sure someone like Debra Ariff and Suzy haneg will put me to right.

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

I won't, I am back into my old WWII aviation interest.

Have you anything new on the crashed Flying Fortress you were researching? Always sounded like an interesting story so good Luck..Jeffx

[Poch]

I think a lot of you guys should read the book, I appreciate some of you might be hesitant, you've heard it all before etc. but really an awful lot of this thread is going round in circles with groupthink based on snippets from the preview or tabloid guff. If you don't want to pay for it, go read it in a book shop or something. Currently the 'debate' is often naysaying the book based on assumptions that aren't even in it and an awful lot of your questions are answered to some degree.

I don't think the books watertight by any strecth, but there is debate to be had here, just not the ones you're currently having. Unless you just flat out disagree AND hold a PhD in forensics, you can hardly dismiss this without at least giving it a flick.

[pinkmoon]

I won't, I am back into my old WWII aviation interest.

WW2 aviation takes me back to many happy hours in my longer days constructing airfix kits.

[Stewart P Evans]

I might...

I think a lot of you guys should read the book, I appreciate some of you might be hesitant, you've heard it all before etc. but really an awful lot of this thread is going round in circles with groupthink based on snippets from the preview or tabloid guff. If you don't want to pay for it, go read it in a book shop or something. Currently the 'debate' is often naysaying the book based on assumptions that aren't even in it and an awful lot of your questions are answered to some degree.
...

I might read the bit that I appear in, but I won't read the rest.

[Prosector]

Hi all, first post

First I would like to start with a scenario in which it may be possible that Amos walked away with the table cloth / shawl. It should be remembered that police protocol in those days was in it's infancy. With the GSG you have the possibility of a public squabble between two groups of coppers. We should remove it. No we shouldn't.

Amos, may not have informed what could have been in his eyes a rival group of police about what he took. Or perhaps even he was allowed to take it as it seemed unconnected to the crime. If folded, the blood stains, (which I think may have been minimal) may not be apparent.
Allow me if I may, to propose a scenario.

Amos finds the body (outside duristiction for whatever reason) either before or after a City police officer. Both find the scene at around the same time.
City police officer says 'Can you wait here for a sec, let me see if I can grab another officer' and Amos stays at the scene, and finds a table cloth / shawl that was not immediately apparent. Perhaps it could have been 15-20 feet away from the victim, Jack discarding it as he left the square. Amos either A) tucks it away somewhere he can unknowingly grab it as he leaves or B) declares to the City officers that he will take it, perhaps because it would be inadmissable or unconnected. Don't forget, it could have been relatively far from the body, hence why it wasn't listed on the crime scene list.
When they return, he is no longer required, and leaves.

I don't think that scenario is far-fetched. I'm trying to think of 'how it's possible'. Don't put too much confidence into Victorian Police policy. It has shown itself to be haphazard in many ways, and it's possible he duped the other officers when he took it. Just saying.

Another thing that's been on my mind:
When did barber shops stop performing medical surgery in London?

Thanks

The major point you are overlooking is something that is true to this day. The City of London is outside the jurisdiction of the Metropolis. In theory even the Queen cannot enter it without the permission of the Lord Mayor (whose representative meets her at the City boundary whenever she is invited in). The same holds true of the police, then and now. Unless specifically invited in by the City police there is no way whatever that Amos could have been within the City without specific permission - particularly if in uniform which would have been recognised.

I think that JTR knew this when he left Berner Street in a hurry. The one place he would be relatively safe from pursuit was the City. I am not saying that, then or now, crossing the boundaries in hot pursuit was not possible but that wasn't the case. A body was found in Mitre Square and the City police has more than enough people to deal with it without inviting constables from miles away in Islington to help them. H Division was much closer and they would have called them in first if required and there is no evidence whatever that they did.
Prosector

[Monstrosity]

I've been coming here for a number of years reading comments and ive read a dozen books on the Ripper case making me another armchair Ripperologist(and I realize their are professional Ripperologists here and I've read some of your books, but sometimes we just need to take a fresh look). I've come to realize that if God himself came down and said it was Aaron Kozminski many would dismiss it as nonsense because it doesn't fit their favorite suspect.

The DNA for the victim Eddowes was very difficult to extract and used techniques that were not even available 5 years ago. Did you guys read the geneticist article on the subject? Its definitely her DNA. And if Kozminski's DNA is on there as well, which seems to be the case why not accept the strong possibility?
1. He was a major suspect named by Macnaghten who was close to the case.
2. He fits the FBI personality profile
3. He fits the geographic profile
4. An eyewitness refused to name the killer because he was a fellow "jew" and didn't want to cause more harm to his people.
5. Robert House in his book, "The case for Scotland Yard's Prime Suspect" makes a strong case without DNA evidence for it being Kosminski.
6. It seems Kosminski's DNA is on the shawl. So there is a definite connection. It should at least raise his profile in everyone's mind.

I want to add the main objection to Kozminski for a long time was that he wasn't violent while incarcerated and had strange behavior. I never understood this objection because many serial killers have been passive and non violent after capture such as Gacy or Dahmer, and Dahmmer was certainly strange. It could also be that Kozminksi's mental state deteriorated further when he was sent away.

[Stewart P Evans]

Airfix

WW2 aviation takes me back to many happy hours in my longer days constructing airfix kits.

Ah yes, those Airfix kits, and that bloody cement that kept melting the plastic, happy days.

[pinkmoon]

Ah yes, those Airfix kits, and that bloody cement that kept melting the plastic, happy days.

Absolute paradise Tried to get my son interested in airfix but he wouldn't bite

[Stewart P Evans]

Do you...?

I've been coming here for a number of years reading comments and ive read a dozen books on the Ripper case making me another armchair Ripperologist. I've come to realize that if God himself came down and said it was Aaron Kozminski many would dismiss it as nonsense because it doesn't fit their favorite suspect.
The DNA for the victim Eddowes was very difficult to extract and used techniques that were not even available 5 years ago. Did you guys read the geneticist article on the subject? Its definitely her DNA. And if Kozminski's DNA is on there as well, which seems to be the case why not accept the strong possibility?
1. He was a major suspect was named by Macnaghten who was close to the case.
2. He fits the FBI profile
3. He fits the geographic profile
4. An eyewitness refused to name the killer because he was a fellow "jew" and didn't want to cause more harm to his people.
5. Robert House in his book, "The case for Scotland Yard's Prime suspect makes a strong case without DNA evidence for it being Kosminski.
6. It seems Kosminski's DNa is on the shawl. So there is a definite connection. It should at least raise his profile in everyone's mind.

Do you, by any chance, have a favourite suspect?