Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jeff,

I suggest you read your post [#1308] again and get back to me at your earliest convenience.

Regards,

Simon

[Jeff Leahy]

I doubt that you are as cynical as I am, I had nearly 30 years as a police officer to finely hone my cynicism. Yes, indeed it is 'great for business' if you wish to look at it in that light. Now that is cynical.

Yep I said I was more cynical than you are a life time in television

However what you say is correct, The shroud of Turin has had a similar debate.

But if they match DNA from the Shawl to Eddows your going to have a tough time convincing the general public of that.

I very much doubt they will get permission to exhume Aron and do a direct DNA test.. and if I were cynical I would say thats what they would be betting on.

As far as I'm concerned the case for Kosminski doesn't need any DNA tests..but thats just my private opinion.

By the way I read your serial killer profile with Niel Milkins in 'Who was Jack the Stripper'… Probably one of the most interesting articles I've read in a long time…so many thanks..

Yours Jeff

[Monty]

Your thoroughness is much appreciated. Thanks Monty.

Thank you, and you Droy. Research is still ongoing. If I do find something which mentions Simpson, I shall gladly share. Im happy with the possibilty Jack has been named, however, like Stewart, I want clarification, proper clarification before Im truly content.

However, as with Stewart again, my alarm bells are ringing with this damn provenance of the shawl, it flies in the face of all I know about the policing of the time, from transfer to duties (which have not been discussed), to procedure and so on.

The only way Simpsons transfer would not be mentioned in Police Orders is if Warren ordered it as such, this happened with the creation of the Ghost Squad in 1946. However, that was a CID matter, and due to covert operations, something Simpson, as uniform branch, would not be involved in.

Monty

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff,

I suggest you read your post [#1308] again and get back to me at your earliest convenience.

Regards,

Simon

Be a lot easier if you just quoted Simon..this thread is just to big to dig around.. On the road to Damascus yet?

Jeff

[Stewart P Evans]

Carefully Handled

For those wanting to know how carefully handled the 'shawl' was over the years, the O'Donnell (Parlours') book tells us -

'He [David Melville Hayes] remembered seeing the shawl for the first time when he was 8 or 9 years old, when it was kept in an old sea-chest with waxed rope handles at his grandmother's house. The chest was about 18"x15"x4'. His mother also recalls it being kept in this chest, which is now in David's possession. She recalls how her mother kept their Sunday best clothes in the same chest, with the shawl! One corner of the shawl was tattered and some material had been cut away. David has always assumed that this had been bloodstained and his grandmother had cut this off and thrown it away, also dabbing out one or two more stains with bleach (David himself had cut out the two sections which were later framed.).'

[Stewart P Evans]

Missed this one...

But are we not saying new evidence has contradicted the accepted Status Quo?
...
Yours Jeff

Missed this one Jeff. Status Quo are a great group, one of my favourites, and nothing contradicts them.

[Pontius2000]

No we cannot say that. Not until the whole testing methodology has been scrutinized by experts and it has been peer tested.

Thanks. For all your negative comments, you just echoed exactly what I've been saying...it deserves more research.

[Jeff Leahy]

For those wanting to know how carefully handled the 'shawl' was over the years, the O'Donnell (Parlours') book tells us -

'He [David Melville Hayes] remembered seeing the shawl for the first time when he was 8 or 9 years old, when it was kept in an old sea-chest with waxed rope handles at his grandmother's house. The chest was about 18"x15"x4'. His mother also recalls it being kept in this chest, which is now in David's possession. She recalls how her mother kept their Sunday best clothes in the same chest, with the shawl! One corner of the shawl was tattered and some material had been cut away. David has always assumed that this had been bloodstained and his grandmother had cut this off and thrown it away, also dabbing out one or two more stains with bleach (David himself had cut out the two sections which were later framed.).'

Of course you are correct. If the Shawl has been handaled over the generation by the Eddows line getting an Eddows DNA Match is always going to be possible..its contamination…same story with the Turin Shroud

But your going to have a hard time selling that argument to the public and TV companies…A positive match is a Positive Match as far as most are concerned…

Yours Jeff

[pinkmoon]

Thanks. For all your negative comments, you just echoed exactly what I've been saying...it deserves more research.

How on earth can it be researched ? like I said before even Jeremy Kyle couldn't sort all this out.

[DRoy]

The case has never been closed- and IF The Metropolitan Police want to, as far as I am aware (better people will confirm/deny this) they can knock on his door and ask the man to hand it over pdq-on the basis that it could be regarded as suspected primary evidence in an unsolved murder case.

Of course, they didnt do it before- not when the Parlour book hit the shelves- but now we have the DNA evidence and a book author claiming with certainty that such evidence makes a suspect 100% guilty of a murder.

Then again- it might not interest the cold case squad at all.

Phil,

Perhaps we have the best cold case officers already on this case? I can name quite a few on these very boards! What an all-star team that would be.

Cheers
DRoy

[Jeff Leahy]

Missed this one Jeff. Status Quo are a great group, one of my favourites, and nothing contradicts them.

You'd never get me to admit I like Status Quo in Public…was always a John Peel man myself… But looking back 'Backwater' had some cool blues tunes..must be getting old

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Phil,

Perhaps we have the best cold case officers already on this case? I can name quite a few on these very boards! What an all-star team that would be.

Cheers
DRoy

As long as it doesn't name Phil Carter we will all be happy

[pinkmoon]

Hello Pontius,

I agree...involvement would be welcome-depending on reason for getting involved. The punchline? Oh it is good.

The case has never been closed- and IF The Metropolitan Police want to, as far as I am aware (better people will confirm/deny this) they can knock on his door and ask the man to hand it over pdq-on the basis that it could be regarded as suspected primary evidence in an unsolved murder case.

Of course, they didnt do it before- not when the Parlour book hit the shelves- but now we have the DNA evidence and a book author claiming with certainty that such evidence makes a suspect 100% guilty of a murder.

Then again- it might not interest the cold case squad at all.

It might or might not be of interest to the Fraud Squad though... depending on their views too.

I am by no means savvy with how the Metropolitan Police regard this item though.


best wishes

Phil

From what I can gather to investigate an alleged fraud someone who thinks they have been defrauded needs to put in a complaint to the police obvious one is the daily mail but with the amount of extra papers they have shifted they are not really out of pocket are they.

[Pontius2000]

How on earth can it be researched ? like I said before even Jeremy Kyle couldn't sort all this out.

More tests from independent sources.

Thanks. I know your opinion because of the 1300+ posts on this thread, half of them are you stating, "it's rubbish", "it's fraud!", blah blah blah. Can you give it a rest?

[Bridewell]

Fame and recognition at last! I appear in the book that 'knocked the Ripper case on the head' and ended the mystery. I give favourable rates for interviews if any TV representatives are reading this.

Yes, but what are the chances of anyone who actually knows what they are talking about being asked to review this book? Slim to non-existent?