Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[Stewart P Evans]

Police

I'll give this much...the crime happened in London city, evidence of the crime was left at the very edge of Met territory, and ordered to be destroyed by the Met. It still goes without saying that the City and the Met crossed paths on numerous occasions on that night.

The City Police and the Metropolitan Police areas were clearly defined and they strictly adhered to their own areas, especially as their police powers did not extend into the other force's area. They would cross the boundary in a pursuit situation, and when a serious crime had been committed, as witness Halse going through Goulston Street searching for a suspect.

[Henry Flower]

The City Police and the Metropolitan Police areas were clearly defined and they strictly adhered to their own areas, especially as their police powers did not extend into the other force's area. They would cross the boundary in a pursuit situation, and when a serious crime had been committed, as witness Halse going through Goulston Street searching for a suspect.

So Stewart, what was the procedure: if their police powers ended at the other force's area, and a pursuit was extended into that area, and a suspect apprehended - what then? Presumably they had powers to make the arrest? And would they then frogmarch the suspect as quickly as possible back to their own force's jurisdiction, or hand him over to the force on whose territory he/she had been caught?

[Gene Lewis]

Who could swear there is not a table runner next to the body ?

[Henry Flower]

Who could swear there is not a table runner next to the body ?

No Gene, that's a fence!

[Gene Lewis]

family tradition used to use fences as table runners…

[wolfie1]

Eddowes Inquest

In Newpaper reports of Eliza Conway aka Eddowes inquest it states that Eddowes was a Hawker and Cleaner to Jews, and that she was found with a scarf below the wound across her neck.

Is it possible that Eddowes stole the Shawl/scarf/table runner from a Jewish household.

Re the Scarf, was that mentioned in her inventory ?

[curious4]

Hello GUT (or whoever had her majesty as a fishmonger)

Once had a lovely theory worked out with Queen Victoria as the Ripper. The motive being that the East End ladies had kept their figures despite bearing many children, and she hadn't!

Unseriously yours,

C4

[wolfie1]

In Newpaper reports of Eliza Conway aka Eddowes inquest it states that Eddowes was a Hawker and Cleaner to Jews, and that she was found with a scarf below the wound across her neck.

Is it possible that Eddowes stole the Shawl/scarf/table runner from a Jewish household.

Re the Scarf, was that mentioned in her inventory ?

Edit to add.
Reported 15 December 1882 Eliza Conway of George Lane charged and sentenced to 14 days hard labour, with theft of petticoat from the clothesline property of Mrs Turner.

[Monty]

So Stewart, what was the procedure: if their police powers ended at the other force's area, and a pursuit was extended into that area, and a suspect apprehended - what then? Presumably they had powers to make the arrest? And would they then frogmarch the suspect as quickly as possible back to their own force's jurisdiction, or hand him over to the force on whose territory he/she had been caught?

As your post is addressed to Stewart, I shan't be so rude as to answer.

However, I hope you find the attached useful taken from The Police Code of 1889, it covers the question of jurisdiction, pursuit and apprehension.

Monty

[Stewart P Evans]

Answered

So Stewart, what was the procedure: if their police powers ended at the other force's area, and a pursuit was extended into that area, and a suspect apprehended - what then? Presumably they had powers to make the arrest? And would they then frogmarch the suspect as quickly as possible back to their own force's jurisdiction, or hand him over to the force on whose territory he/she had been caught?

I think that Neil's answer has covered this point pretty comprehensively. The constable would have a citizen's power of arrest in the other force area.

[Monty]

Cross force co-operation did happen, however these were commonly limited to surveillance or arrest, not an attendance of a crime scene

Attached, taken from Lloyds Weekly, 15th July 1888, is an example of a joint arrest during the period, and yes, that is DC Marriott, who was involved in the Eddowes case.

Monty

[Robert]

Morris at the inquest :

[Coroner] Did you see any suspicious persons about? - No. Two constables came up and asked what was the matter. I told them to go down to Mitre-square, as there was another terrible murder. They went, and I followed and took charge of my own premises again. Then I put the kettle on for the crowd of Met officers who had wandered in out of curiosity.

[GUT]

Hello GUT (or whoever had her majesty as a fishmonger)

Once had a lovely theory worked out with Queen Victoria as the Ripper. The motive being that the East End ladies had kept their figures despite bearing many children, and she hadn't!

Unseriously yours,

C4

Don't think it was me [if so I'm not sure what I was drinking, but I want more].

But do have it on good authority that she does a nice fish & chips on the stove top in the throne room, but only on Fridays.

Equally as unseriously.

[Henry Flower]

Thank you both - Neil, thanks very much for taking the time to do that, it's always fascinating to see source material, much appreciated.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say I can now happily dismiss the shawl with its sauce material.

Sorry.

[Monty]

Morris at the inquest :

[Coroner] Did you see any suspicious persons about? - No. Two constables came up and asked what was the matter. I told them to go down to Mitre-square, as there was another terrible murder. They went, and I followed and took charge of my own premises again. Then I put the kettle on for the crowd of Met officers who had wandered in out of curiosity.

And that quote is from?

Monty