Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[lynn cates]

description

Hello Jukka. Thanks.

You neglected to mention that he was stout--to be so slender and short--to be so tall. He had one eye blue, one brown, and a third green. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Jeff Leahy]

Thank you GUT, you're right.

Jeff:

Answer: in your imagination.

I'm sorry I don't understand? Are you saying the material was wrongly identified by the Victorian and Albert Museum as being Edwardian?

and if so, on what advice or evidence?

Yours Jeff

[MrBarnett]

I have had word about my posting on DNA haplogroups, and correctly so - In my second post, I did not use matrilinear DNA groupings, which I should of course have done.

However, I only noticed that there is a site dealing with these matters, and on it, somebody with knowledge about DNA posted this on the matrilinear T1a1 haplogroup and Russian Jews:

Now for the fly in the ointment, I have not found this haplogroup in Russian Jewish people. In fact, the clients who I have done DNA Reports for who fall into this haplogroup are not Jewish – none of them, nor do they have Jewish matches. Neither does Dr. Behar identify this as a Jewish haplogroup in his founding mother’s paper. Nor is this identified elsewhere as a Jewish haplogroup. Of course, this Daily Mail article has no sources, so we can’t independently verify what was said, but it looks like this assertion of T1a1 typical of Jewish people may be in error.

The whole thing - and it is VERY interesting - can be accessed via

http://dna-explained.com/2014/09/08/jack-the-ripper/

I reccommend a read!

The best,
Fisherman

Thanks for posting that, Fish. So this expert comes up with an estimated population of 600 for his own haplogroup. Considerably less than the 400,000 figure that was mentioned earlier.

MrB

[Henry Flower]

Jeff:

I'm sorry I don't understand?

You are quite right.

[Henry Flower]

Jeff, let me put you out of your agony: the whole point of my post was that I would be convinced ONLY IF the new book somehow conclusively and persuasively addressed the points everyone has raised - including the dating of the runner.

I have no reason right now to question the validity of the dating of the fabric as being Edwardian.

OK?

HF

[j.r-ahde]

Hello lynn!

Oh-o, the Ripper was an alien from outer space?

All the best
jukka

[Jeff Leahy]

Jeff:

You are quite right.

What is this cryptic corner?

The Material is either Pre-1888 or post-1888

The advice I was given from a reliable and credible source was that it had been dated by the Victorian and Albert Museum approx 1902-04

If you have evidence contrary to that I'd be most interested in knowing what it is?

If you haven't please refrain from stating that its genuine without evidence

Yours Jeff

[eddie1]

Just found this http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Jack-...ail/story.html

Apparently when they tested the shawl in 2010 they found it did have blood and semen on it but they couldn't get DNA from it. Could this new technique be the reason that they got samples from it this time ?. I never realised they found blood and semen back then didn't himk any thing was found

[lynn cates]

slight correction

Hello Jeff.

"The material is either pre-1888 or post-1888"

Slight correction. Since these are not exhaustive, what about EXACTLY 1888? (But, of course, I think, as you said, it is Edwardian.)

Cheers.
LC

[pinkmoon]

Jeff, let me put you out of your agony: the whole point of my post was that I would be convinced ONLY IF the new book somehow conclusively and persuasively addressed the points everyone has raised - including the dating of the runner.

I have no reason right now to question the validity of the dating of the fabric as being Edwardian.

OK?

HF

Morning Henry,we are seriously asked to believe that a serial killer has been taking a tablecloth to the scene of his murders and then masturbating on it and then we are asked to believe he leaves his much loved tablecloth behind and a policeman who isn't even meant to be on duty in the area picks it up and gives it to his wife for a present who then gladly accept the gift which is covered in blood and semen never washes it and puts it away and forgets about it ....and like all good fairy stories they all lived happily every after.

[Donpayasos]

Why the Kosminski descendants?

My guess is they started with semen, and that led them, instantly and inevitably, to the suspect Aaron Kosminski and his "solitary vices" (Macnaghten) a.k.a. "unmentionable vices" (Anderson).

I'm afraid not, Edwards is quite clear in his account that he decided it was Kosminski based on evidence/talking to the guy at the Crime Musuem, THEN they found the alleged semen and he decided to test it against the alleged Kosminski' descendant.

So, he formed a conviction then went looking for evidence to support it.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Jeff.

"The material is either pre-1888 or post-1888"

Slight correction. Since these are not exhaustive, what about EXACTLY 1888? (But, of course, I think, as you said, it is Edwardian.)

Cheers.
LC

Obviously I meant either pre or post the night of the murder. Just thought that was obvious yours jeff

[Jonathan H]

To Donpaysos

Really? How do we know that? Because ... they so?

Consider that blood from the murderer would not ring true (was he attacked too?)

An artifact that said 'Please return tablecloth to A. Kosminski', or any other name, would have to have been spotted long before.

No semen was found or noticed at any of the crime scenes.

But ...

The Polish-Jewish suspect, Aaron Kosminski lived near all the murder sites, chronically masturbated, was out and about for over two years after the Kelly murder, was permanently sectioned as harmless, and who died just after the Great War.

And ...

If you combine Macnaghten and Anderson's (and Swanson's) accounts we have the semi-fictional variant, 'Kosminski'; a Polish-Jewish suspect, who lived near all the murder sites, was maybe seen by a beat cop, chronically masturbated, was permanently sectioned soon after the Kelly murder, was soon after positively identified by a treacherous Jewish witness--at a police hospital--and soon after that, thank goodness, died.

Despite their huge differences both share the capacity to leave human material that strongly suggests a sexually-driven maniac.

That could fly, I think they thought.

I do not mean in an overtly deceitful sense, just getting a bit carried away with their own solitary vices, now exploding all over the world like cascading ticker-tape.

By the way, it is not well known that George Sims, in 1907, propagated a second fictitious variant of Mr. Kosminski, albeit un-named.

The Polish Jewish suspect does not masturbate, does not live with family but alone, had medical training in a hospital in Poland, was maybe seen by a Beat cop exiting where a victim lay carved up on the pavement (later the cop could not confirm it was the same man) and is sectioned by the state not his relations--and was out and about for a considerable time after the Kelly murder and, by implication, was still alive in the Edwardian Era.

Which he was.

[Jeff Leahy]

To Donpaysos

Really? How do we know that? Because ... they so?

Consider that blood from the murderer would not ring true (was he attacked too?)

An artifact that said 'Please return tablecloth to A. Kosminski', or any other name, would have to have been spotted long before.

No semen was found or noticed at any of the crime scenes.

But ...

The Polish-Jewish suspect, Aaron Kosminski lived near all the murder sites, chronically masturbated, was out and about for over two years after the Kelly murder, was permanently sectioned as harmless, and who died just after the Great War.

And ...

If you combine Macnaghten and Anderson's (and Swanson's) accounts we have the semi-fictional variant, 'Kosminski'; a Polish-Jewish suspect, who lived near all the murder sites, was maybe seen by a beat cop, chronically masturbated, was permanently sectioned soon after the Kelly murder, was soon after positively identified by a treacherous Jewish witness--at a police hospital--and soon after that, thank goodness, died.

Despite their huge differences both share the capacity to leave human material that strongly suggests a sexually-driven maniac.

That could fly, I think they thought.

I do not mean in an overtly deceitful sense, just getting a bit carried away with their own solitary vices, now exploding all over the world like cascading ticker-tape.

By the way, it is not well known that George Sims, in 1907, propagated a second fictitious variant of Mr. Kosminski, albeit un-named.

The Polish Jewish suspect does not masturbate, does not live with family but alone, had medical training in a hospital in Poland, was maybe seen by a Beat cop exiting where a victim lay carved up on the pavement (later the cop could not confirm it was the same man) and is sectioned by the state not his relations--and was out and about for a considerable time after the Kelly murder and, by implication, was still alive in the Edwardian Era.

Which he was.

Their used to be a children's game called Chinese Whispers in the UK when I was a kid… Its surprisingly easy to muddle stuff up depending on your view points and interests. So its hardly surprising accounts vary

I'd add to your list the account given by Saga.. Always sounded to me he was talking about Kosminski also..

The Hospital in Poland, Simms comment always fascinated me.. I believe Rob House checked this out at one time but nothing turned up

Yours Jeff

[Trevor Marriott]

Yes we DO have to Jeff- simply because EVERYTHING that can blow this clearly concocted story to smithereens should be thrown slap bang down on the table in front of the persons behind this nonsense for them to answer otherwise.

The provenance of the Amos Simpson shawl story comes before the ownership of the shawl- or whatever the blasted thing is.

IMO It is physically impossible for Simpson to have left N division and get to Mitre Square after the murder happened and not meet the doctors and policemen- and by dint of the sketch of the bodw WITHOUT the 8ft piece of material- he cannot have done it without having left N division before or at best as the murder was committed.

That proves the Amos Simpson story to be untrue. Which is the basis for the ownership of the shawl


Phil

Hi Phil
Not forgetting that one hour earlier the body of Stride had been found and surely any available Met police officers might have been busy in and around Berner Street not dinxing around Mitre Square !