Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[Observer]

Par for the course

Hello Jason.

"Any idea of its value in 1888?"

L0, since the shawl dates to ca 1902-04.

Cheers.
LC

It dates to circa 1902-04 because a complete stranger to you posted in this forum that the fabric is in fact Edwardian, and therefore could not have existed in 1888?

[twnorman]

Naming Jack the Ripper

Anyone knows if there are any photographs of the (supposed) shaw in the book?

[Gene Lewis]

Hello Bitsie. Welcome to the boards.

Yes, indeed. This table runner did not exist until next century.
Cheers.
LC

Let us be clear and discussing the same topic: does Lynn means that THE shawl thousand people talk about since the Daily Mail release was not yet existing on september 30, 1888 ?
That's it ?

[Observer]

Daisy if I am daisy if I aint flower

Bitsie, I have an alternative answer to the question, reasonable though yours is.

When PC Amos Simpson stumbled out of his own jurisdiction and into City territory, and saw the Ripper savaging Eddowes, he knew it would upset the City police if he made an arrest on their turf. However, he also saw a rather lovely shawl that the Ripper had cast aside while searching for Kate's neck, and he wanted it, despite the fact it was being liberally doused with mitochondrial DNA even as he watched. Knowing that within moments of the murder the place would be crawling with officers of the City force, he sidled cautiously up and grabbed it while Jack was still busy editing Eddowes' face. Thus by the time Jack needed to wipe his hands, the shawl was already gone, and therefore the apron needed to be cut. Jack, naturally, assumed a Jew had taken it, hence the rather forlorn message he left later in Goulston St.

There is no proof that this is not exactly what happened.

Either that, or another copper gave him it.

[Bitsie]

Either that, or another copper gave him it.

Another police officer gave PC Simpson a blood and semen soaked shawl and Simpson gave it to his wife? The cad!

[Observer]

Hahahahahaha. Rich. Tell us another one.

Experts have just confirmed that the primark label on shawl dates to the 1870s.

Hello Jason. Source?

Cheers.
LC

No source just made it up like a lot of people have done over the years.

Hello Jason. Thanks.

Yes, a GOOD bit has been made up.

Cheers.
LC

Says it all really

[Observer]

Another police officer gave PC Simpson a blood and semen soaked shawl and Simpson gave it to his wife? The cad!

Indeed Bitsie ! It takes all kinds.

[Henry Flower]

Seems reasonable. One officer risked demotion by stealing vital crime scene evidence to keep as a trophy, then changed his mind and gave it to his mate PC Simpson to keep as a trophy, and PC Simpson decided his wife (or his dining room table) would look great covered in shades of dried blood and semen.

Common enough in the LVP.

From what I've read in the preview to the paperback, I'm not preparing myself to be bowled over. The constant hints that the author alone knows some crucial fact about the shawl that has to be kept secret from all the experts until the time is right.... which is another way of saying the author needs to keep his powder dry until the book is safely published rather than subjecting its main evidence to the peer review of experts - and possible destruction - even before he's had the chance to cash-in.

[HollyDolly]

Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl.

Didn't read through all the posts. First of all, someone from the British Museum or a textile expert could exam the shawl to see if it is from the time period.Secodnly,if it is Eddowe's shawl, she might have worn it all the time in the evening when she went out, as to keep any night chill off. ladies in those days wore them even in the house if the house was cool or cold in the morning before they got a fire going in the stove to warm things up.

Thirdly,as far as I have read, Jack didn't sexually assault his victims.He just killed them.Now because he was indoors with mary kelly and she was younger and one presumes prettier than the other victims, he might have had sex with her before the murder,who knows.
Also, Kosminski may have murdered Catherine Eddowes or maybe even just have had sex with her,no killing. But even IF he killed her.Didn't think he would have had time to even masturbate on the body,which might be another way the seminal fluid could have gotten onto the shawl.

[HollyDolly]

Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

By the way,what ever happend to the clothing of all the victims? Is it still in the hands of Scotland Yard or not? If so,then why not also test it for Kosminski's DNA?

As far as the whole Jack was a member of the royal family story, aka Prince Eddy, then why doesn't the the Queen or whomever have royal DNA tested as well to prove the story false.Just like the two young boys whose bodies lie in an urn in Westminister Abbey whom everyone belives might be the two princes in the tour,now that Richard the Tird has been found?

[tinysteelorchestra]

Does the piece of Kate Eddowes' apron still exist?

[Henry Flower]

But even IF he killed her.Didn't think he would have had time to even masturbate on the body,which might be another way the seminal fluid could have gotten onto the shawl.

HollyDolly, without wanting to sound crude, how much time do you think it might take? Supposing this guy gets the highest kick possible from killing and ripping, I would imagine he could be primed and ready to shoot before he had even finished with his knife.

Look at the weird kit Peter Sutcliffe manufactured for that very purpose.

But, like you, I've always pictured them as crimes of hatred and rage, not of sex.

[Phil Carter]

Didn't read through all the posts. First of all, someone from the British Museum or a textile expert could exam the shawl to see if it is from the time period.Secodnly,if it is Eddowe's shawl, she might have worn it all the time in the evening when she went out, as to keep any night chill off. ladies in those days wore them even in the house if the house was cool or cold in the morning before they got a fire going in the stove to warm things up.

Thirdly,as far as I have read, Jack didn't sexually assault his victims.He just killed them.Now because he was indoors with mary kelly and she was younger and one presumes prettier than the other victims, he might have had sex with her before the murder,who knows.
Also, Kosminski may have murdered Catherine Eddowes or maybe even just have had sex with her,no killing. But even IF he killed her.Didn't think he would have had time to even masturbate on the body,which might be another way the seminal fluid could have gotten onto the shawl.

I have to ask something...

Has anybody seen the list of garments Kate Eddowes WAS wearing that night?

If she wasn't keeping the chill out with that lot, then I don't know what she would have to have on.

An abjectly and permanently poor, "suggested prostitute" of the lowest class just happens to be wearing an 8ft long piece of material, which is pretty heavy by the way, and is pretty expensive, having got it from Kosminski, a really rich(sic) Polish Jew with connections to the textile trade...

(she was given it between 1.00am and 1.43am, because the policemen at the station would have noticed it was missing from the list when it was presented at the inquest......)

....who has to pawn her boots to get a meal...


Oh dear this could go on forever. Maybrick time I fear.

8ft shawl my hat.


Help!




Phil

[Phil Carter]

Does the piece of Kate Eddowes' apron still exist?

Hello tinysteelorchestra,

Good question, but sadly the answer is no. as far as I am aware, the material was thrown out some time in the early 1950's (I am going from memory of a question way way way back..) perhgaps someone could answer this with more detail?


best wishes

Phil

[bladen7273.]

Of all the different suspects why was Kosminski the one that was tested. Mr. Edwards must have chosen him as a suspect long before this "evidence" was put forward.
Also, not being able to disclose who the Kosminski family member was that the mDNA was obtained from leaves a huge question mark!

Another thing...I was a police officer for sixteen years, and I never had any inclination to take an item from a crime scene (especially one from a murder victim) to have as a keep sake. Why would this officer take a shawl covered in blood and then pass it down to his family members?

Something isn't adding up!!!!!