Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[GUT]

Hello Theagenes.

"It could very well be that the shawl is indeed from the murder of Eddowes as has always been claimed"

But can anyone give a coherent explanation as to:

1. How the shawl got to Mitre?

2. Why it was not inventoried?

Cheers.
LC

G'day Lynn

In answer to 1 and 2 all I can say is not Mr Edwards.

[GUT]

That's an interesting theory that it was used to soak up some blood. There was never any semen at any of the crimes scenes, wouldnt Koz have had a good wank on the body?

G'day Rocky

Unless he was "hair triggered" or "The Victa Man" [Victa is a two stroke motor mower] he wouldn't have had time!

[Theagenes]

Hello Theagenes.

"It could very well be that the shawl is indeed from the murder of Eddowes as has always been claimed"

But can anyone give a coherent explanation as to:

1. How the shawl got to Mitre?

2. Why it was not inventoried?

Cheers.
LC

I can speculate if you want but that's all it would be. If the results hold up all it means is her blood is splattered on it on it. I can think of a number of reasons a cloth with the blood of a murder victim on it can exist without ti ever being at the murder scene. Maybe it was used as a makeshift rag at the mortuary and got her blood on it and was never even at the crime scene. Maybe it was at the crime scene and someone snagged it before it was recorded. Maybe a City cop lifted it and lost it to Amos in poker game. Who knows? You could speculate endlessly. One thing that I do feel pretty sure about though is that the story family has told is almost certainly not true. However Amos got it, it wasn't legit.

[Theagenes]

That's an interesting theory that it was used to soak up some blood. There was never any semen at any of the crimes scenes, wouldnt Koz have had a good wank on the body?

Maybe, other serial killers did -- but he would have had to be quick about it.

Or if the cloth was his and he brought it to have rag to clean up with then the jizz could have already been on it. Or the shawl is hers and the jizz belongs a regular john and not the killer. There's a lot of possibilities.

[GUT]

I can speculate if you want but that's all it would be. If the results hold up all it means is her blood is splattered on it on it. I can think of a number of reasons a cloth with the blood of a murder victim on it can exist without ti ever being at the murder scene. Maybe it was used as a makeshift rag at the mortuary and got her blood on it and was never even at the crime scene. Maybe it was at the crime scene and someone snagged it before it was recorded. Maybe a City cop lifted it and lost it to Amos in poker game. Who knows? You could speculate endlessly. One thing that I do feel pretty sure about though is that the story family has told is almost certainly not true. However Amos got it, it wasn't legit.

G'day Theagenes

And even if the story told was 100% true, it still wasn't legit.

In spite of what some here want to believe an officer [or anyone else for that matter] removing evidence [unrecorded] from the scene of a crime, was even in 1800's itself a crime.

[Theagenes]

G'day Theagenes

And even if the story told was 100% true, it still wasn't legit.

In spite of what some here want to believe an officer [or anyone else for that matter] removing evidence [unrecorded] from the scene of a crime, was even in 1800's itself a crime.

Yes, very true. The family story definitely sounds like it's a whitewash to cover the reason why Amos had this creepy artifact he shouldn't have. Whether it's the story Amos told the family or the story the mother told the kids when they were older, either way. And I'm sure it evolved over time after that anyway.

[robhouse]

And, moreover, Kosminski was transferred to Leavesden, an asylum "for the quiet and harmless imbecile"

Whatever JtR was, he wasn't harmless

Theagenes, Here is a case in point for what I was just talking about.

RH

[Theagenes]

Theagenes, Here is a case in point for what I was just talking about.

RH

Yes, I recall you addressed this in the book. Imbecile was a specific category in psychological terms, but this institution also took in incurable lunatics like Kosminski for lack of any place else to put them. Was that correct?

And of course many serial killers become docile once they're confined.

[RockySullivan]

The ripper would have likely appeared harmless and prolly charming as most sociopaths are able to disguise the monster inside

[RockySullivan]

If the shawl was from the crime scene wouldn't it have run in the papers with every Londoner seeing it in an attempt to connect it to the ripper. The detectives would have realized it wasn't eddowes and deduced the ripper left it behind.

[Theagenes]

If the shawl was from the crime scene wouldn't it have run in the papers with every Londoner seeing it in an attempt to connect it to the ripper. The detectives would have realized it wasn't eddowes and deduced the ripper left it behind.

Maybe. It seems like the splatter pattern could give us information as well, like was it being worn like a shawl typically is? Was is it folded when the blood was splattered on it?

Did the killer drape it across his chest like a barber shop cape to keep from getting splattered when he cut the throat? Hey what was it that Kos did for a living on occasion?

Some one really should publish a drawing of the splatter pattern.

[robhouse]

Yes, I recall you addressed this in the book. Imbecile was a specific category in psychological terms, but this institution also took in incurable lunatics like Kosminski for lack of any place else to put them. Was that correct?

And of course many serial killers become docile once they're confined.

That is about right. These so-called Imbecile asylums started to take in incurables because of overcrowding... and the criteria for admission were not strictly adhered to.

Incidentally, I think that it is likely that Aaron's Leavesden files would have included a photo of him, since by around 1893 or so, the asylums started taking photos of the patients on admission. Unfortunately, these files have disappeared... although about a year ago I thought I was on the point of discovering them. Another long story, but perhaps another lead to follow at some point.

RH

[dropzone]

The ripper would have likely appeared harmless and prolly charming as most sociopaths are able to disguise the monster inside

But Aaron wasn't the charming Ted Bundy sort of nut. He was the kind that eats from the gutter and masturbates in public. A very different breed.

[GUT]

Maybe, other serial killers did -- but he would have had to be quick about it.

Or if the cloth was his and he brought it to have rag to clean up with then the jizz could have already been on it. Or the shawl is hers and the jizz belongs a regular john and not the killer. There's a lot of possibilities.

G'day Theagenes

I speculated on this earlier, maybe at some time Kos was the John, if Kate was a Pro.

See the DNA [even if 100% right] does NOT prove he was the murderer.

[RockySullivan]

Maybe. It seems like the splatter pattern could give us information as well, like was it being worn like a shawl typically is? Was is it folded when the blood was splattered on it?

Did the killer drape it across his chest like a barber shop cape to keep from getting splattered when he cut the throat? Hey what was it that Kos did for a living on occasion?

Some one really should publish a drawing of the splatter pattern.

Yes the splatter is very significant. Why woulnd't it be published in the book?