Kosminski - Dead or Alive

[mklhawley]

Hi all,

Quick question: How did Melville Macnaghten know that 'Kosminski' was alive yet Assistant Commissioner Anderson and Chief Inspector Swanson did not?

Sincerely,

Mike

[Fisherman]

Quick answers (two of them):

Either they spoke of different men, or Anderson and Swanson had been misinformed.

That should cover it I think.

The best,
Fisherman

[Phil H]

I think there was some confusion - perhaps to do with the overlap between City and Met forces. Maybe it had to do with confusion between two men using the name Kosminski, as Scott Nelson has pointed out in his recent article and as Martin Fido wrote long ago. That to me seems likeliest.

Swanson's marginalia seems to fit one man better than the other.

Phil

[Jonathan H]

Misled?

I think the Cohen theory is ingenious -- and could, of course, be right -- but it's not really necessary.

As his memory fails him, by 1910, Anderson rather seems to be confusing and compressing people and events, including victims, between 1888 and 1895; which includes Pizer, Violena (sic), Sadler, Lawende, 'Kosminski' (as opposed to Aaron) Kelly and Coles, and William Grant.

Whereas Macnaghten, in the fragments, can be argued to have known that 'Kosminski' eg. the real Aaron Kosminski, was quite alive and that he was not sectioned soon after the Kelly murder (Sims, 1907).

I subscribe to Phil H's option that they were [initially] misinformed. Whom else could that misleading figure be but Anderson's No. 2, since he blithely knows more about this suspect than his superior?

[Phil H]

Whole lot of assumptions there, Jonathan, and a reading of the marginalia that may not be correct - it can be read in various ways, including that DSS knew LESS than Anderson.

It is also possible that Kosminski - as meant by Sir RA and DSS was not Aaron - they give no forename.

Phil

[Jonathan H]

That's right, Phil H, just like Macnaghten provided no first name ...

[Phil H]

But Jonathan, YOU used the first name in connection with MM not me:

Whereas Macnaghten, in the fragments, can be argued to have known that 'Kosminski' eg. the real Aaron Kosminski, was quite alive and that he was not sectioned soon after the Kelly murder (Sims, 1907).

Phil

[Jonathan H]

You've missed my meaning:

Behind 'Kosminski' Mac knows details which match not this fictional variant but the real person who seems to have inspired him: Aaron Kosminski -- and not David Cohen.

He was alive and not dead.

He was out and about for a considerable time after the Kelly murder.

You have not tackled Mike's question: how did Macnaghten know that 'Kosminski' was alive and his superior and junior did not?

[Phil H]

Not a question that interests me, Jonathan.

MM is no longer an omniscient creature to me (as he was before the far more important marginalia emerged). IMHO he was just as muddled as you say Sir RA and DSS were.

Phil

[Jonathan H]

Please yourself, but Macnaghten is not as muddled as the other two, that's the point..

[Phil H]

I will please myself, thank you.

And I don't think Swanson was "muddled" at all. We just dopn't have the information on which to judge.

As we don't in regard to Druitt, with MM.

It is possible that Swanson has been misinformed about the date of "Kosminki's death, but if he was not thinking of Aaron, he may have been right.

phil

[Jonathan H]

Misinformed about the date of Kosminski''s death?

You mean like by somebody who knew he was still alive?

[Phil H]

No - I think Swanson or Anderson mau have been given what someone BELIEVED was correct information (perhaps because two individuals with similar names were confused).

If you believe that information comes from an authoritative source you don't tend to question it.

Phil

[Fisherman]

Swanson was in charge of the case - or so we are told.
Anderson was his superior.

Would not one - and probably two - of these men demand to see the death certificate of Jack the Ripper? IŽd say that they would.

And if they DID - then Aaron Kosminski was reasonably not the Ripper.

The best,
Fisherman

[mklhawley]

Swanson was in charge of the case - or so we are told.
Anderson was his superior.

Would not one - and probably two - of these men demand to see the death certificate of Jack the Ripper? IŽd say that they would.

And if they DID - then Aaron Kosminski was reasonably not the Ripper.

The best,
Fisherman

So, if Anderson and Swanson were hot on the trail of Kosminski, they would have known. That sounds logical.

Mike