The `Reverand Dott letter to Australia

[Abby Normal]

God, illness, sentimentality, and death. The Victorian obsessions. You'd find them in a genuine Victorian letter and you'd find them in a fake. I'm interested in what distinguishes the one from the other. And why a faker would have chosen to reflect those obsessions evangelistically, even to the point of mentioning 'dispensation'. When discussing fakes we always seem to run into the same old problem of a supposed faker apparently having the sort of knowledge that means he could have produced a better fake. Do we see the reference to Kosminski as a 'sudden burst' of interest between banalities because Kosminski means something too us? Would it seem that way if the name was Smith or Jones?

yes, someone would still probably find some connection to the ripper lol.
and thanks for responding to my last post.

[PaulB]

Assuming for the sake of argument that it's completely legit, what does it prove? Attacking someone with a pair of scissors isn't quite the same as methodically killing and mutilating people. And we already know Kos had piques of violence when he threatened his sis with a knife and threw a chair at an asylum attendant.

It doesn't prove anything or even add anything to what we already know. But it would be another little peep through the keyhole into the past, a sort of written photo of an incident. And I guess there's always the hope that we might learn more about Kosminski if the author and particularly Mary and where she ran back to could be identified. Every little helps...

[PaulB]

I don't really find it odd, Paul - quite the contrary, in fact. The letter seems to be following a "make your own Victorian" recipe: formal but slightly iffy phrasing ("I duly received your letter"?), praising God and saying prayers, sentimentality, illness, death. Then, like a bolt from the blue (or an elephant in a room) there's this sudden burst about Kosminski, before the letter ends with a genteel whimper, with a few more religious references thrown in like a Good Victorian™.

God, illness, sentimentality, and death. The Victorian obsessions. You'd find them in a genuine Victorian letter and you'd find them in a fake. I'm interested in what distinguishes the one from the other. And why a faker would have chosen to reflect those obsessions evangelistically, even to the point of mentioning 'dispensation'. When discussing fakes we always seem to run into the same old problem of a supposed faker apparently having the sort of knowledge that means he could have produced a better fake. Do we see the reference to Kosminski as a 'sudden burst' of interest between banalities because Kosminski means something too us? Would it seem that way if the name was Smith or Jones?

[PaulB]

Hi Paul
for me its the harshness expressed to the "jew Kominsky" and his "devil tongue" and hanging etc. from such a loving and spiritual person.
the brevity of the letter is strange too.

Yes, you're probably right about the harshness. As for the brevity, it was considered good manners in Victorian times to reply to letters, but that put a burden on the recipient to find interesting things to say, rather like having to write a relative a thank you note for a present received at Christmas or a birthday. Letters could be short and inconsequential for that reason.

[Harry D]

Assuming for the sake of argument that it's completely legit, what does it prove? Attacking someone with a pair of scissors isn't quite the same as methodically killing and mutilating people. And we already know Kos had piques of violence when he threatened his sis with a knife and threw a chair at an asylum attendant.

[Sam Flynn]

don't you feel that the evangelical 'feel' of the letter is an odd choice for a forger to wrap the Kosminski payload?

I don't really find it odd, Paul - quite the contrary, in fact. The letter seems to be following a "make your own Victorian" recipe: formal but slightly iffy phrasing ("I duly received your letter"?), praising God and saying prayers, sentimentality, illness, death. Then, like a bolt from the blue (or an elephant in a room) there's this sudden burst about Kosminski, before the letter ends with a genteel whimper, with a few more religious references thrown in like a Good Victorian™.

[Fisherman]

I find that a man of Kosminskis mental disposition would be quite likely to - if he was to attack another person with a pair of scissors - yell at the top of his voice and make all sorts of commotion. That is the typical outcome of an attack performed by a seriously mentally challenged person.

The Ripper, however, was a very silent assailant.

Hoax or not.

[Abby Normal]

I suppose so, but if the Victorians used those phrases, do their appearance in this letter necessarily point to it being a fake? I mean, if these are stock phrases the Victorians commonly used, hence them being used to give a Victorian feel to a fake letter, they could actually be stock phrases used in a genuine Victorian letter, couldn't they? And taken as a whole, those phrases do fit with the use of brother and sister and the reference to dispensation, so don't you feel that the evangelical 'feel' of the letter is an odd choice for a forger to wrap the Kosminski payload? Of course, one might argue that the forger chose just such an 'environment' in which to set his con, but would a faker with that sort of nouse produce what you describe as 'a clunky vehicle'? These things are always difficult, but there is pause for thought here, I think.

Hi Paul
for me its the harshness expressed to the "jew Kominsky" and his "devil tongue" and hanging etc. from such a loving and spiritual person.
the brevity of the letter is strange too.

[PaulB]

I suppose so, but if the Victorians used those phrases, do their appearance in this letter necessarily point to it being a fake? I mean, if these are stock phrases the Victorians commonly used, hence them being used to give a Victorian feel to a fake letter, they could actually be stock phrases used in a genuine Victorian letter, couldn't they? And taken as a whole, those phrases do fit with the use of brother and sister and the reference to dispensation, so don't you feel that the evangelical 'feel' of the letter is an odd choice for a forger to wrap the Kosminski payload? Of course, one might argue that the forger chose just such an 'environment' in which to set his con, but would a faker with that sort of nouse produce what you describe as 'a clunky vehicle'? These things are always difficult, but there is pause for thought here, I think.

[Sam Flynn]

I can see where you are coming from, although the non-Kosminski text seems odd to me. Don't you think calling people brother and sister in a spiritual sense, talking about 'fighting the good fight' and 'praying nightly for their works', and the passing reference to dispensationalism is rather more specific than one would expect from what's intended to be banal padding to wrap the Kosminski reference?

Particularly in the era of Booth, Besant and Bernardo (to be alliterative), Victorians did have a reputation for overt, almost sentimental, religiosity. "Fighting the good fight" and "praying nightly" strike me as the kind of stock phrases someone might use to give an "authentic" Victorian feel to a hoaxed letter.

[PaulB]

Hello Paul. It's mainly that the Kosminksi part of the letter is embedded in what looks like generic, sentimental Victorian-speak. I get the distinct impression that this padding is only there as a clunky vehicle to deliver the Ripper-related payload.

I can see where you are coming from, although the non-Kosminski text seems odd to me. Don't you think calling people brother and sister in a spiritual sense, talking about 'fighting the good fight' and 'praying nightly for their works', and the passing reference to dispensationalism is rather more specific than one would expect from what's intended to be banal padding to wrap the Kosminski reference?

[Sam Flynn]

I'm not being funny, but where are your previously given reasons for believing it a hoax? I'd like to know your thinking.

Hello Paul. It's mainly that the Kosminksi part of the letter is embedded in what looks like generic, sentimental Victorian-speak. I get the distinct impression that this padding is only there as a clunky vehicle to deliver the Ripper-related payload.

[PaulB]

For reasons I've given previously, I believe it's a blatant hoax.

I'm not being funny, but where are your previously given reasons for believing it a hoax? I'd like to know your thinking.

[Sam Flynn]

For reasons I've given previously, I believe it's a blatant hoax.

[seecomber]

It occurs to me, and doubtless many others, that the mere fact that the fact that the letter came to light in Australia does not necessarily mean it was posted to Aus. in the 1880`s It may have been sent,conveyed or otherwise forwarded at any time after it was written. No envelope is available.