The `Reverand Dott letter to Australia

[PaulB]

Even if the letter is true and verified it is still one person's hearsay about another person's character. We also need to be careful about confusing these "acts of violence" as being even remotely close to what the Ripper did. They are worlds apart. Kosminski was clearly not a well individual but I have always struggled with the "crazy jew" theory for so many reasons. He seems a convenient coat peg for others to hang their prime suspect coats on both then and now.

But you are stating the beginning, not the end. If Kosminski didn't appear to be that convenient peg, it would be universally accepted that Kosminski was Jack the Ripper. What we want to know is whether he was just a convenient peg or whether he was more, maybe much more than that.

[PaulB]

I agree that the term "girls" seem odd when speaking of the Ripper victims, then again, I think the older the writer is, the more likely is he or her to use that term about middle-aged women. Then again, it seems W P Dott was born in 1867...?
As for the outrage you look for, isnīt that reflected in how the writer says that Kosminski should have hung for what he did to those girls? And if the writer do not speak about the Ripper victims, what other girls (plural) could Kosminski have done things to that ought to have earned him an encounter with the henchman? To me, the inference is that the writer does speak of the Ripper "girls".

Hoax or not.

So, you are proposing that the faker was elderly enough to refer to the victims as ‘girls’? I have a senior rail-card, but I don't call middle-aged women 'girls'. How old would a modern-day faker have to be to think of Jack the Ripper's victims as 'girls'?

Alternatively, of course, the use of the word ‘girls’ is odd, as you acknowledge, so maybe proposing an old faker is just a wishful explanation, and the simpler proposition is that the letter writer isn't referring to the Ripper's victims at all.

And there is no evidence that Dott was the letter writer.

The writer does not say Kosminski should have hung. He expresses wonder that ‘he hasn’t hung’. That’s an expression of bafflement, not outrage.

I’m sure suddenly appearing, shouting, and brandishing a pair of scissors, would be very frightening to young women, even today, and, if it is ‘our’ Kosminski, I imagine that masturbating in front of them might have seriously shocked some sensibilities and caused the letter writer to wonder that he was still at liberty, ‘have been hung’ being an obvious exaggeration, as the whole thing suggests.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Hi Darryl,

It appears to me that the St. Edward the Confessor, Dringhouses, York, website has it wrong.

Dott enrolled in Oxford in May 1889, and was there for the next four years (documents on ancestry.com and other places confirm this). He actually appears to have received his BA in 1893.

I think some people are confused about the meaning of the word "matriculate" (it means enroll, not graduate), hence the error. The Oxford lists for 1892 state that he matriculated in 1889. They do not list him as having received a BA.

Cheers.

Thanks for the info RJ

Regards Darryl

[Fisherman]

Even if the letter is true and verified it is still one person's hearsay about another person's character. We also need to be careful about confusing these "acts of violence" as being even remotely close to what the Ripper did. They are worlds apart. Kosminski was clearly not a well individual but I have always struggled with the "crazy jew" theory for so many reasons. He seems a convenient coat peg for others to hang their prime suspect coats on both then and now.

Well put, erobitha! I agree very much.

[erobitha]

Even if the letter is true and verified it is still one person's hearsay about another person's character. We also need to be careful about confusing these "acts of violence" as being even remotely close to what the Ripper did. They are worlds apart. Kosminski was clearly not a well individual but I have always struggled with the "crazy jew" theory for so many reasons. He seems a convenient coat peg for others to hang their prime suspect coats on both then and now.

[Fisherman]

...the letter writer need not be referring to the Whitechapel murders, and it is open to question that anyone would have called the Ripper's victims 'girls'. I would also imagine that the author would have expressed deep outrage if he thought Kosminski was the Ripper and hadn't been arrested, not mere 'wonder'.

I agree that the term "girls" seem odd when speaking of the Ripper victims, then again, I think the older the writer is, the more likely is he or her to use that term about middle-aged women. Then again, it seems W P Dott was born in 1867...?
As for the outrage you look for, isnīt that reflected in how the writer says that Kosminski should have hung for what he did to those girls? And if the writer do not speak about the Ripper victims, what other girls (plural) could Kosminski have done things to that ought to have earned him an encounter with the henchman? To me, the inference is that the writer does speak of the Ripper "girls".

Hoax or not.

[PaulB]

Well, the letter was allegedly discovered in a book by Booth in the library of a theological college. So anyone planting it there would probably have an interest in the subject.

Not really. The letter doesn't reflect everyday Christian beliefs, as one might expect, but the evangelicalism of groups like the Plymouth Bretheren with dispensation and so on. One might not consider that an obvious choice for a faker, be it one in a theological college or not. That's the point I am making

It strikes me that the letter implies that "the jew Kosminski" was not just a well-known character in the area, but also that it was common knowledge he was responsible for the Whitechapel murders. When was the first mention of the name in press or police files?
I'd perhaps be more inclined to believe it was genuine if the name was Piser.

No, that might be what a faker wants you to infer, but the letter writer need not be referring to the Whitechapel murders, and it is open to question that anyone would have called the Ripper's victims 'girls'. I would also imagine that the author would have expressed deep outrage if he thought Kosminski was the Ripper and hadn't been arrested, not mere 'wonder'.

[rjpalmer]

PS. The way I understand it, someone can be enrolled in a college without having matriculated. To matriculate is to enroll with the intension of receiving an actual degree. Adding to the confusion, in Canada, and elsewhere, they sometimes use the word "matriculate" to mean someone has graduated from High School.

[rjpalmer]

If the letter is legit and the writer is Rev William Dott this may be of interest - https://www.stedsdringhouses.org/his...-patrick-dott/.
I note that he graduated from Oxford in 1889 and his first curacy was in Croydon, not far from the east end. So a possible connection
Regards Darryl

Hi Darryl,

It appears to me that the St. Edward the Confessor, Dringhouses, York, website has it wrong.

Dott enrolled in Oxford in May 1889, and was there for the next four years (documents on ancestry.com and other places confirm this). He actually appears to have received his BA in 1893.

I think some people are confused about the meaning of the word "matriculate" (it means enroll, not graduate), hence the error. The Oxford lists for 1892 state that he matriculated in 1889. They do not list him as having received a BA.

Cheers.

[Dupin]

I would agree with Joshua that the Kosminski reference does seem odd unless Kos was notorious. Otherwise one would expect an anonymous reference, such as "a madman with scissors".
Now had the writer written "none other than HRH Prince Albert Victor attacked her with scissors" we could all relax.

[Harry D]

I agree that the letter doesn't really tell us anything new. But isn't this a small point in favour of its authenticity? If you were a forger trying to make a splash, wouldn't you write something more sensational such as, "There's a local man called Kosminski who's well known to be violent, he's been seen with blood all over him after some of the murders and his own family are privately admitting that they think he's Jack the Ripper"?

More sensational = less believable.

[Darryl Kenyon]

If the letter is legit and the writer is Rev William Dott this may be of interest - https://www.stedsdringhouses.org/his...-patrick-dott/.
I note that he graduated from Oxford in 1889 and his first curacy was in Croydon, not far from the east end. So a possible connection
Regards Darryl

[Darryl Kenyon]

It strikes me that the letter implies that "the jew Kosminski" was not just a well-known character in the area, but also that it was common knowledge he was responsible for the Whitechapel murders. When was the first mention of the name in press or police files?
I'd perhaps be more inclined to believe it was genuine if the name was Piser.

This is the trouble I have with the letter. It is dated July 89 but the Swanson marginalia implies that Kosminski wasn't sent for ID [ thus suspected ], until early 91. If Kosminski was a suspect in the summer of 89 why not put him forward for ID then?
Regards Darryl

[AndrewL]

I agree that the letter doesn't really tell us anything new. But isn't this a small point in favour of its authenticity? If you were a forger trying to make a splash, wouldn't you write something more sensational such as, "There's a local man called Kosminski who's well known to be violent, he's been seen with blood all over him after some of the murders and his own family are privately admitting that they think he's Jack the Ripper"?

[Joshua Rogan]

God, illness, sentimentality, and death. The Victorian obsessions. You'd find them in a genuine Victorian letter and you'd find them in a fake. I'm interested in what distinguishes the one from the other. And why a faker would have chosen to reflect those obsessions evangelistically, even to the point of mentioning 'dispensation'.

Well, the letter was allegedly discovered in a book by Booth in the library of a theological college. So anyone planting it there would probably have an interest in the subject.

Do we see the reference to Kosminski as a 'sudden burst' of interest between banalities because Kosminski means something too us? Would it seem that way if the name was Smith or Jones?

It strikes me that the letter implies that "the jew Kosminski" was not just a well-known character in the area, but also that it was common knowledge he was responsible for the Whitechapel murders. When was the first mention of the name in press or police files?
I'd perhaps be more inclined to believe it was genuine if the name was Piser.